London Heathrow Emergency Landing

dannyjo22 said:
What difficulties with the hydraulics? Single engine operations on the 319 is a piece of ****. I'm sure the stress level was up but the actual operation is no harder on the crews than dual engine operation.
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I would disagree with that. On top of all that Scuzi mentioned this all happened during climbout which is already a pretty busy time in the cockpit. What with monitoring all the instruments and juggling & cross-checking multiple checklists how you can say that the workload would be no higher than the normal operation is beyond me :confused:
 
dannyjo22 said:
What difficulties with the hydraulics? Single engine operations on the 319 is a piece of ****. I'm sure the stress level was up but the actual operation is no harder on the crews than dual engine operation.
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Are you serious? Its a much more difficult operation precisely because of the massively increased stress levels. Yes we do practise engines failures in the simulator, but that is in the sim and not real life, things rarely go as you expect to or train in real life.

Perhaps you should says things like that next time you are in the cockpit and judge the pilots reaction :rolleyes:
 
Scuzi said:
The crew didn't go into detail over the RT, they were too busy.
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Or what really happened is they didn't need to feed detail over the radio. I imagine the concern was purely what damage those fan cowls might have done.

neodude said:
how you can say that the workload would be no higher than the normal operation is beyond me :confused:
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Because I have probably more hours in the 319 than anyone here including the crew that flew that aircraft. Have you even seen the checklist after an engine shutdown on the 319? I have. I have had the discussion with crews on what they monitor and workload. I know the redundancy and lack of actual crew input required.

I also know that the engine shutdown down adds very very little crew input because I've had more than enough conversations with 319 crews. I am not about to go into details of any of our single engine operations on a public forum obviously. I'd lose my job but I know very well how little impact it has on the 320 family for single engine ops.

As usual these things get blown up by the media.
 
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inferno said:
Perhaps you should says things like that next time you are in the cockpit and judge the pilots reaction :rolleyes:
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As I said I have had these discussions with pilots that have had an engine out on the 319, which is what I'm discussing. Clearly they are liars then.
 
Next time we have an emergency I'll post an FAO: dannyjo22 here and bring you in so you can "Rex Kramer" them safely back onto the ground :p
 
Scuzi said:
Next time we have an emergency I'll post an FAO: dannyjo22 here and bring you in so you can "Rex Kramer" them safely back onto the ground :p
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I'd just tell them to stop whinging and threatening to go on strike and grow some ****ing balls. ;)

My only interest here is if the cowls were unlatched and if the debris caused a a fuel leak leading to a fire externally which would have gone out as soon as they T handled. Pretty freak accident if the cowl did cause the fire.

Then I'm interested to see who get's the blame.....
 
I heard on radio 4 about 20 mins ago that it was escorted by two fighters that intercepted it and arrests have been made for people endangering an aircraft?
 
mattyfez said:
I heard on radio 4 about 20 mins ago that it was escorted by two fighters that intercepted it and arrests have been made for people endangering an aircraft?
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That was a different incident involving a Pakistan Airlines aircraft.
 
dannyjo22 said:
Because I have probably more hours in the 319 than anyone here including the crew that flew that aircraft. Have you even seen the checklist after an engine shutdown on the 319? I have. I have had the discussion with crews on what they monitor and workload. I know the redundancy and lack of actual crew input required.

I also know that the engine shutdown down adds very very little crew input because I've had more than enough conversations with 319 crews. I am not about to go into details of any of our single engine operations on a public forum obviously. I'd lose my job but I know very well how little impact it has on the 320 family for single engine ops.

As usual these things get blown up by the media.
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It's not just the case of a standard engine shutdown though, and without knowing the details you can't possibly comment on what the workload of the flight deck would be.

Either way, I refuse to believe that the crew's workload did not increase above normal levels throughout this incident.
 
dannyjo22 said:
A standard engine shut down, perhaps you had better fill me in as to what that is.
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Perhaps one without the added complexity of problems with the other engine, being in a critical phase of flight in one of the busiest airspaces in the world and having to communicate all of this to ATC?
 
I can say I've dealt with multiple engine shut downs and they are usually not far from a non-event, however this incident was different in many ways. Neodude is right that this incident had it's added complexities and the fact that it ran relatively smooth is more a result of the professionalism of those involved rather than a case of Skippy the Wonderbus taking care of everything. It's easy to speculate from an armchair but don't forget that there are facts that are not in the public domain for whatever reason. Don't believe everything Sky News tells you!
 
Out of curiosity, how often do things go wrong on planes that are simply not reported to the passengers? I fly Ryanair quite a bit, and there's been some very strange variations on flights.

Are faults very rare, or are the tolerances just very high?
 
sports_brah said:
Out of curiosity, how often do things go wrong on planes that are simply not reported to the passengers? I fly Ryanair quite a bit, and there's been some very strange variations on flights.

Are faults very rare, or are the tolerances just very high?
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Major faults, by which I mean the sort that would disrupt the operation of the flight significantly, are quite rare. They do happen though and advances in training have made all but the more serious events almost "routine".

What sort of variations do you speak of? IME, Ryanair are actually one of the operators with which we have the least amount of drama.
 
As dannyjo has mentioned an engine failure, as far as system failures go is one of the more straight forward to deal with. It has a very simple check list and it is one of the most practiced failures that we do in the simulator. It also generally doesn't affect the aircrafts capabilities.

However that being said, it is still a very serious issue and it has to be delt with accordingly. As Scuzi and Neodude pointed out, emergencies aren't always simple and straight forward. In this case there were a number of additional issues that had to be considered and delt with.

Hindsight is always a great thing and it is very easy to sit here in comfort discussing it! The flight crew did a great job in dealing with the situation and landing the plane with no one hurt. You can't ask for more then that.

As to what happened, well the evidence seems to point to someone not latching the cowling closed on both engines. However it is all just speculation and I'm sure the AAIB will do an in depth investigation.
 
Blinkz said:
As to what happened, well the evidence seems to point to someone not latching the cowling closed on both engines. However it is all just speculation and I'm sure the AAIB will do an in depth investigation.
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As it's said to have come out the hanger from maintenance I imagine there are a few engineers that woke up yesterday morning after a nightshift sleep only to turn on their tv and then soil themselves. Everywhere I've worked the V2500 latches are a duplicate inspection for this very reason. Even on the CFM at night I'm laughably OCD double checking my own latches.

It will be interesting as to the BA procedure and who gets bummed the hardest, the LAE or the first officer :p
 
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