poaching - seven rhinos killed again...

Amp34 said:
And when did the human population rise above every other animal/lifeform on this planet?

Unfortunately it's people like you that are the root cause of many of the problems of today! :(

Humans aren't the only thing that matter, Rhinos are part of a complex ecosystem that is being destroyed at an ever increasing pace. Rhinos shouldn't suffer because humans have reached plague like proportions on this planet.
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It's a molten rock spinning through empty space. On the grand scheme of things rhinos and everything else on Earth are beyond insignificant. At least humans have a chance of LEAVING one day.

But let's say the human plague is removed from earth and we have this wonderful natural paradise of animals and plants. So what? There would be nobody there to post pictures of it on facebook or make inane BBC documentaries about it, so what's the point?? Then an asteroid will come along and kill it all anyway.
 
kwerk said:
It's a molten rock spinning through empty space. On the grand scheme of things rhinos and everything else on Earth are beyond insignificant. At least humans have a chance of LEAVING one day.

But let's say the human plague is removed from earth and we have this wonderful natural paradise of animals and plants. So what? There would be nobody there to post pictures of it on facebook or make inane BBC documentaries about it, so what's the point?? Then an asteroid will come along and kill it all anyway.
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Earth is very significant. For as far as we know, it's the only planet on which life exists. Now you can assume life exists elsewhere, but we have no evidence. On that basis alone, the Earth is important.

And of course it's our home. The animals share this home with us, and it is as much their home as ours. As the dominant and most intelligent/capable species, we have a care-taking responsibility. At the very least we have the duty of not mucking the whole place up.

Your outlook is very bleak, Kwerk, and it would be wrong of me to claim that the future is rosy if we persist in our current course. But I hold out hope for a future where the Earth is alive and kicking, and we have learned to live with, not preying on and abusing our environment and other living creatures.
 
Woden said:
Wait wait ... dogs, cats, rats and monkeys* are endangered? When did this happen? Why wasn't I informed? There's like 6 cats on my street RIGHT NOW. Someone get me a damn rifle quick, they need protecting!

Seriously though, I don't turn a blind eye to scientific experimentation of animals, in-fact I support it whole heartedly. I am assuming you are against it ... are you going to volunteer to replace guinnie pigs and down some untested pills? Or maybe boycott pretty much all medication in existance and never receive blood?

*The three species of monkey used in medical experiments are in no way endangered.
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People don't realise that evolution isn't separate from humans. The number of cats and dogs and cows has grown massive because they fill an evolutionary niche CREATED by humans who now own this planet. Rhinos no longer fill any role in this new human-dominated environment and Darwin is getting rid of them.

OK so there is some really vague argument about it damaging the ecosystem somehow and thus harming humans. The extinction of rhinos won't harm humans at all. The ecosystem is much much more resilient than the eco green crypto-religion makes out. In fact humans could survive perfectly well with all other mammals extinct.
 
FoxEye said:
Earth is very significant. For as far as we know, it's the only planet on which life exists. Now you can assume life exists elsewhere, but we have no evidence. On that basis alone, the Earth is important.
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Well if there isn't a high-level consciousness (i.e. humans) to appreciate it, so what??

And apparently only a very few mostly western humans do appreciate it, because they have luxury of being able to look at animals beyond their utility.
 
kwerk said:
The ecosystem is much much more resilient than the eco green crypto-religion makes out. In fact humans could survive perfectly well with all other mammals extinct.
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Evidence, please. The ecology of this planet is tremendously complex. There are plenty of varieties of plants which could not exist without mammals. So you're looking at less plant diversity too.

And then we've got the poor bees (which admittedly aren't mammals!) If they die off we're in for a world of hurt, and they are dying off... and nobody knows why, except that it may be our fault (fields of monoculture planting, pesticides, etc).

If we go around letting extinctions happen (or causing them), who knows how bad things could get.

If you've got evidence for your bold claims that humans could life without all the wildlife, do go ahead and post it.
 
I would be totally OK with all mammals being extinct except for livestock. And I suppose chimps for doing experiments on.

Don't worry there would still be plenty of fish and birds to make documentaries about.
 
kwerk said:
I would be totally OK with all mammals being extinct except for livestock. And I suppose chimps for doing experiments on.

Don't worry there would still be plenty of fish and birds to make documentaries about.
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And now he goes too far and I can't defend him.
 
"Why would I want to? Whose lives are improved by rhinos existing?"

Other Rhinos?

"At least humans have a chance of LEAVING one day."

For the sake of the rest of the universe - I hope not.

Rhinos (or any other species except humans it would appear) becoming extinct is not important? Maybe there's a creature or plant out there that would help us eradicate cancer - unfortunately for us because human beings wanted to clear it away to graze cattle or killed it for its fur that chance is gone.

Still - never mind. kwerk didn't want to see it anyway.
 
FoxEye said:
Evidence, please. The ecology of this planet is tremendously complex. There are plenty of varieties of plants which could not exist without mammals. So you're looking at less plant diversity too.

And then we've got the poor bees (which admittedly aren't mammals!) If they die off we're in for a world of hurt, and they are dying off... and nobody knows why, except that it may be our fault (fields of monoculture planting, pesticides, etc).

If we go around letting extinctions happen (or causing them), who knows how bad things could get.

If you've got evidence for your bold claims that humans could life without all the wildlife, do go ahead and post it.
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The plains Indians survived perfectly fine in a million square miles with no mammals except buffalo and a few deer. Of course there are rodents, coyotes and things but they don't serve any important role on the plains. Birds are the main clean up scavengers. Scale it up and swap buffaloes for cows and we could survive too, although it would not be very interesting for tourists and film makers.
 
The only valid argument being presented for keeping rhinos in existance is their entertainment value to over-privileged westerners.
 
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