Bullies ...

Yes I am sure they are far too lazy to implement the instant guaranteed one shot fix to a complex problem with broad sociological stimuli and implications. :rolleyes:

Oh it's quite simple, they're just not allowed to do it. In fact they're penalised for doing so.

If a child (or adult for that matter) cannot behave then they should be removed from general population. Put them in an isolated situation where if necessary you can study and find the causes for their issues.
If they're just a general muppet then do not reintroduce them into society. Child or adult.

However, we can't do this. It infringes upon their freedoms and liberties. Instead every other person around them has to put up with their anti-social (sometimes violent) disruptive behaviour and others clean up their messes after them.
 
I've witnessed wilful inaction from one headmaster, yes, and heard similar reports from others. Given that the problem originates outside of school then I wouldn't put my faith in them to start with, some people seem to rush to hand responsibility to the State even for their own offspring.

So one headmaster makes all schools.
You've heard conjecture that you then extrapolate onto all schools.
You presume the problem starts outside of the school.
The state are responsible for their offspring they are citizens of that very state.
 
Merely crowd sourced feedback, he can be offended if he likes or he can fill in a form complaining about my blatant emotional bullying and subversion of his masculinity. He might even stop wringing his hands and deal with it properly.

Words fail me. I know you are baiting me for a response. And in fact my reply is indeed giving you what you want. Attention.

You seem to fully understand how the world works. I am very envious of you.
 
Good job for you then wasn't it.

Are you suggesting I'm violent or anti-social? That sounds like a slur my good sir!

I demand you substantiate your accusations lest you be casting slanderous aspersions which I would take to be an insult.

Thus by personally insulting me you are in breach of forum rules and would earn yourself a ban.
 
You presume the problem starts outside of the school.
Generally bulling is a reaction to family problems, so yes.
The state are responsible for their offspring they are citizens of that very state.
Oh dear, here was me thinking parents are responsible for their own children.
You seem to fully understand how the world works.
Nobody used to bother the schools with this sort of thing, you'd either approach the parents and have a word, or your brother would quietly smack the kids face into a wall and warn him off. Everybody knew that you didn't bully someone if they had a bigger brother.

Sorry if you feel all that is a bit messy and hands on and you'd rather pass the responsibility for all that onto people who are paid to pretend to care. Please don't feel singled out by my comment, I'll happily apply it to everybody involved in this pathetic Nanny State way of doing things.
 
Generally bulling is a reaction to family problems, so yes.
Oh dear, here was me thinking parents are responsible for their own children.
Nobody used to bother the schools with this sort of thing, you'd either approach the parents and have a word, or your brother would quietly smack the kids face into a wall and warn him off. Everybody knew that you didn't bully someone if they had a bigger brother.

Sorry if you feel all that is a bit messy and hands on and you'd rather pass the responsibility for all that onto people who are paid to pretend to care. Please don't feel singled out by my comment, I'll happily apply it to everybody involved in this pathetic Nanny State way of doing things.

No I think you just simply misunderstood.

let me put my view across as best as I can, so you can stop yourself from looking so silly. I suggest to understand my points you take off your keyboard warrior hat and try on that logical hat you have always neglected.

This "bully" is picking on someone physically smaller than he is. This, imo, is the essence of most school yard bullying. The mental bullying is something he can handle, he has already explained that to me. His only concern is that of physical violence.

This leaves me with one question. How does me smashing this kids face in solve the situation? putting the possible repercussions of a rather large retaliation from the bully and his "gang" to one side, Surly all that is doing is making me a bully of some sorts?

I also think most, including yourself, fail to understand quite how dangerous troubled young kids are these days. Kids feel the need to retaliate and prove themselves way too often. This, in most cases, results in serious pysical attacks and stabbings.

When I was a kid if you were bullied you could sort it out "the old way" and believe me, this is how I ended up dealing with my bullies.

But I think you do not realise that its just not that simple anymore.
 
Surely all that is doing is making me a bully of some sorts?
Yes it would, would leaving the moral high ground be a concern for you?
Obviously I can't comment on the likelihood or method of retaliation as I know nothing more than your post, but I can suggest that the person/family concerned is not really going to care what the school say. He's already had a suspension for physical violence and he's still behaving in the same way.
 
None of you want to read this but i agree with bitslice on some aspects.

in an ideal world everything would be settled by a lovely diplomatic chit chat.

If the bully kid is properly off the rails then that will do nothing.

If you and his dad have the balls go pay his family a visit and have a word, appeal to any decency they may have. Don't go guns blazing but expect verbal confrontation. Record it all - audio in case they are total scumbags then u can play that to the school rep.

Then go the red tape paperwork route while the poor kid spends another month being picked on.

Nothing resolves an issue like a good threat of violence or a mild wrestle. You can talk all day about this. Most of the forum are victims, myself included, we all know 99% of the time this can be solved by one cut lip, a weeks detention and a black eye at the school gates.
 
Nobody used to bother the schools with this sort of thing, you'd either approach the parents and have a word, or your brother would quietly smack the kids face into a wall and warn him off. Everybody knew that you didn't bully someone if they had a bigger brother.

Nothing resolves an issue like a good threat of violence or a mild wrestle. You can talk all day about this. Most of the forum are victims, myself included, we all know 99% of the time this can be solved by one cut lip, a weeks detention and a black eye at the school gates.

I think what you 2 are missing is that while this was all well and good 10-15+ years ago (see my earlier post), kids these days have no "honour" (if you can call it that). Used to be you'd give a bully a black eye and stand up for yourself and they'd respect you for it, or at least realise you weren't an easy target, these days, you give a bully a kicking and there's a very real chance you'll get jumped by a gang of his mates/family, or he'll just pull out a knife in the toilets - it's all about gang culture these days, so if you make them look weak in front of their peers, they'll be out for revenge.

This is coming from someone who was bullied at school and eventually stood up for themselves (see earlier post) but also who has worked in a college, both as support (IT) and teaching staff, and so I've seen how the attitude of kids has changed over the years.

I also think most, including yourself, fail to understand quite how dangerous troubled young kids are these days. Kids feel the need to retaliate and prove themselves way too often. This, in most cases, results in serious pysical attacks and stabbings.

When I was a kid if you were bullied you could sort it out "the old way" and believe me, this is how I ended up dealing with my bullies.

But I think you do not realise that its just not that simple anymore.

Exactly this.
 
[..]
Nothing resolves an issue like a good threat of violence or a mild wrestle. You can talk all day about this. Most of the forum are victims, myself included, we all know 99% of the time this can be solved by one cut lip, a weeks detention and a black eye at the school gates.

If you're going to try to impose dominance (it's a primitive animal thing, so the term is apt) by violence then you have to be willing to escalate the violence beyond what your target is willing to go to. If their position in their pack is at stake, you'll have to go further. For a modern bully in you might have to kill them to stop them if you take that route, and even then you risk vengeance from their packmates, whose own status is lowered as a result.

I think that the average level of violence that bullies are willing to go to has increased in the recent past. Yes, it used to be the case that low levels of violence would be enough to establish you as less than easy prey. Maybe as much as 99% of the time. But it's not the same now. A much larger proportion of bullies have a much higher level of violence that they're willing to go to. It's like the difference between a normal dominance contest on the outskirts of a pack and an attack by a roaming group of rabid dogs.

I'm deliberately framing it in terms of primitive animals because bullies are feral. They've set the terms.
 
Difficult situation, I'm not sure now I would handle it if it was my son. With emotions running high I might end up doing something silly.

I would try and get a feel for the bullies family, it may be that they too are struggling with his behaviour. The school might be able to organise a joint meeting? It's not true that all bullies come from scummy families. Many have broadly good homes, but happen to have parents with weak parenting skills. Or other complications - Family brakeups for example can result in frustration that children don't know how to handle. Until you know what you're dealing with it's difficult to recommend a course of action.

Your story does remind me of an incident at school with a close friend. He was being bullied by a kid 3 years old than us. Not very big lad and I suspect not that tough, but he managed to be very intimidating. His Dad went the normal route, but failed to resolve the issue. Then one day it stopped completely, at the time I never thought much of this and just assumed someone else had become the focus of attention. I later found out that my mates Dad had found out who the bullies Dad was and that he occasionally met him at the school gates to take him home. He simply waited for him one day and I believe very politely told him that if it did not stop he would give him a hiding at the school gates infront of his son. It seemed the fear of being humiliated in front of his son was enough to make him act. Up until this point he'd just thought it was "boys being boys" and that my mate should suck it up.

This worked, but it is very risky as other posters have said, it would have got very out of hand if the bullies Dad had raised the bar again. In the end I'd go the official route as much as possible. But if all else failed, I would do what I needed to do to protect my son and make sure he gets the education he deserves.

EDIT: Protecting my son includes not being sent to jail, as I'm fairly sure that too would be quite damaging :)
 
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When i get kids i'm sticking them into martial arts class as soon as they're able to walk. Very Serious

+1 at least they can defend themselves and maybe give a few decent hits back. bullies are cowards and once they realise they will get hurt they will not do it any more.

when i was at school bullying was going on all over the place and none of the teachers gave a ****. they all turned a blind eye to everything. this was in the 80s though. i would expect better now

i would speak to the teachers - making sure they keep their gobs shut as most of them will just say to the bully 'x's parents have been in... ' and that just causes more trouble, make them just say that they have seen bullying and will not stand for it. record any bit of info and if it keeps up go see bully's parents, they arent always *********. maybe even record the conversation so you have backup if they threaten you.

ive seen school kids literally trying to kill each other (1 kid dropped a breeze block on another kid's head when was unconscious) and i went to a village school. anyone who uses violence like that needs kicking out of school and police prosecution.
 
I was wondering why no-one on here has owned up to being a bully. Then I remembered its a computer forum.:D

Seriously though I was bullied until I hit back then it stopped. That was 26 yrs ago can't do that anymore.

OP sounds like your on the right track though

Hope it works out.

haha. i have 'bullied' kids before. when we were in the 4th and 5th year. but it was a bit different. me and a few friends used to look out for the smaller kids so if we saw say 3rd years picking on 1st years we would take them to one side and sort it out. i would liken us to robin hood rather than a bully.

my dad came from a rough area and used to box for his school so he just taught me to hurt anyone that hurt me.

had the same at college. went into a class of people a year older than me (and a fair bit bigger as i was only 5'7") and took a bit of **** for a month or 2 then one day i had enough, grabbed the chair he was sitting on and smashed him in the face with it. he never said anything to me after than and all of a sudden everyone else wanted to be my best mate.

obviously you need to be careful and not mix up a mere bully with a dangerous psycho who might stab you etc. but most are cowards and just trying to push people who wont fight back.
 
I think some of you guys suggesting violence is the answer are a little out of touch with todays britain :/

Its not like the old days where a kid stands up to a bully and the bully gains respect/fear for him and backs off..these days, the kid stands up to the bully and knocks him down...the bully and his mates corner the kid after school and put a knife in him.
 
Are you guys generally serious about thinking the kid will be stabbed. Really?
Llittle white kids dont stab each other much. Ive grown up in London My sister is a Head of department in an Inner London school. No one is stabbing anyone and there are multiple fights per day.

Im not sure what scare mongering DM threads you read but im actually suprised how brain washed you lot are. Gang culture, come on please...

Ill be quite racist here but statistically black kids stab black kids in the UK.

There are some rough school out there but im quite sure most of your children dont go to them.

Are you lot living in fear of everything. ?:p
 
I was bullied at school and as people have said, the bullies do it when the teachers aren't looking. Telling the teachers doesn't really help you though as you get into more trouble from the bullies for being a snitch.

I did eventually lose it one day and smashed on the bullied head repeatedly into a brick wall which put him in hospital which i am ashamed off but the bullying did stop after that.
 
Are you guys generally serious about thinking the kid will be stabbed. Really?
Llittle white kids dont stab each other much. Ive grown up in London My sister is a Head of department in an Inner London school. No one is stabbing anyone and there are multiple fights per day.

Im not sure what scare mongering DM threads you read but im actually suprised how brain washed you lot are. Gang culture, come on please...

Ill be quite racist here but statistically black kids stab black kids in the UK.

There are some rough school out there but im quite sure most of your children dont go to them.

Are you lot living in fear of everything. ?:p

This is my gut feeling as well. I would feel terrible though if it were to end badly and for someone to get stabbed or worse.

If it were my child I would be encouraging them to stand up for themselves from a very early age when it comes to bullying, and give as good as they get.

I have never really heard of any instance where the "official" channels were properly successful in tackling bullying.
 
Are you guys generally serious about thinking the kid will be stabbed. Really?
Llittle white kids dont stab each other much. Ive grown up in London My sister is a Head of department in an Inner London school. No one is stabbing anyone and there are multiple fights per day.

Im not sure what scare mongering DM threads you read but im actually suprised how brain washed you lot are. Gang culture, come on please...

Ill be quite racist here but statistically black kids stab black kids in the UK.

There are some rough school out there but im quite sure most of your children dont go to them.

Are you lot living in fear of everything. ?:p

"kids" (i.e. primary school up to ~10-11) no, you're quite right, it's unlikely.

14 year olds like in the OP? Entirely possible.
 
give him a claw hammer and a pot of mustard, He should know how to utilise them to ensure said bullies don't come back for more.
 
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