Gay People Against Gay Marriage

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krooton said:
What I find funny is that you have people who are trying to preserve the meaning of the word 'marriage', whilst simultaneously telling us to accept that the word 'gay' is now on it's third meaning....
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I've always found that argument strange.

Like preserving the meaning of a word is a reason to justify discrimination...

Also, if you look at the divorce, infidelity, single parents & other marriage statistics - not to mention the stream of atheists getting married - I'm not sure who exactly they think is undermining the "moral fabric of marriage".
 
elmarko said:
I've always found that argument strange.

Like preserving the meaning of a word is a reason to justify discrimination...

Also, if you look at the divorce, infidelity, single parents & other marriage statistics - not to mention the stream of atheists getting married - I'm not sure who exactly they think is undermining the "moral fabric of marriage".
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What have atheists getting married got to do with 'the moral fabric of marriage'? Surely a philosophical position is immaterial to a social union.

What is the moral fabric of marriage anyway?

Marriage isn't solely a religious institution, it never was and it certainly isn't now....as far as the etymology of Marriage, there is a lot of misconceptions and misunderstanding of its origins being bandied around here and if we look at the actual origin of the modern word from the Vulgar Latin it specifically defines as a bonding in order to procreate as the original meaning related to breeding pairs in agriculture, the association with the Roman Conubium (the actual legal process) came later, and the term matrimonium required a woman, and a fertile one at that as the fundamental reason for such a union was procreation and the legal status and heritage of Children.

Today, society is somewhat different, and Marriage reflects that, it is no longer an imperative to have children and modern medicine can, and does solve that issue anyway. We should stop focusing on what tradition states and focus on the social and legal needs of people today. We are striving for an equal society, therefore defining legal status' in a discriminatory way seems to me to be the antithesis to what we, as a society are trying to accomplish.

Does it not?
 
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Castiel said:
What have atheists getting married got to do with 'the moral fabric of marriage'? Surely a philosophical position is immaterial to a social union.

What is the moral fabric of marriage anyway?
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I have no idea, it's not a phrase I use, or one I've heard the justification as to what specifically they mean when it's said.

Along with "moral fabric of society", "sanctity of marriage" & many other meaningless catch phrases.

The point was, that to many Christians by there own terms (by making out it's a Christian ceremony) it's actually straight people who do more harm to the "sanctity of marriage".
 
[FnG]magnolia;24451627 said:
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Silly, silly girl. She has every right to believe what she wants and live her life by the teachings of the bible. But what really winds me up is the inherent belief that others should also live by HER religious beliefs. Does this numpty not know that somewhere out there, another group of people find her life style disgusting? If you accept the principle of her argument, you also have to accept the fact that if "that" group were to become the majority, they too would have the right to restrict her freedom.

EDIT: Opps, looks like I missed the sarcasm in her plackard. I think she's American, so it's always hard to tell.
 
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elmarko said:
I've always found that argument strange.

Like preserving the meaning of a word is a reason to justify discrimination...

Also, if you look at the divorce, infidelity, single parents & other marriage statistics - not to mention the stream of atheists getting married - I'm not sure who exactly they think is undermining the "moral fabric of marriage".
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I agree, language evolves to reflect the culture that uses it. This is nothing new, without it English would not exist. It smacks of a rather desperate attempt to justify discrimination, which is hardly surprising considering the antics of organised religion. Why change the habit of over two centuries.
 
Sudden said:
My point was simply that my understanding of what they had said was that as long as it is not impacting others in a negative way, people are free to do as they please. Which is what my takeaway from that quote has always been. It was not a point specific to this debate but more of a general one.

Didn't particularly mean it to be condescending/insulting so apologies if it came across that way.
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It's cool, just read what I posted in response to you last night and it was needlessly sharp - looks like I'm a bit of a turd when I'm tired!

Sorry for being a bit of a **** :(
 
hurfdurf said:
"It's just trash-talk! We don't actually hate the gays/women/non-whites/etc! Why shouldn't we be able to use these words that have no meaning to us but years of negative/violent connotations for all those other groups?"

You are so removed, and dare I say privileged, from never having to deal with homophobia/sexism/racism/etc that it's like this little bubble where you can't perceive the impact those words have on some people.
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This will always be the case, the majority will make fun/attack the minority.
 
Yes I do know people against gay marriage.
A mate said why should he pay money to get married in a place that has been against people like him for 2000 years and which has been forced to do it?
If I was gay I wouldn't give them my money under force.
What gay people should do is get the rights and then tell them to do one.
 
Dimple said:
A mate said why should he pay money to get married in a place that has been against people like him for 2000 years and which has been forced to do it?
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Which shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the legislation, no one is forced to do anything. If a religious institution doesn't want to marry gay people it will not have to, however those that do (excluding the Church of England/Wale) can choose to do so.
 
Its posturing that is all it is. They want to be even MORE socially accepted than they currently are. They don't want to be treated as pervert or someone who is weird. So they push for these social changes through government to enforce their views on sexuality on everyone else.
 
groen said:
Its posturing that is all it is. They want to be even MORE socially accepted than they currently are. They don't want to be treated as pervert or someone who is weird.
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Which is a good thing surely?

groen said:
So they push for these social changes through government to enforce their views on sexuality on everyone else.
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How is gay marriage being allowed going to impact you? It certainly isn't going to change how I feel about my wife, it isn't going to make me want to have sex with men. What about gay marriage is going to change you and the way you live?
 
No that is not a good thing.

Well if you don't have any principles and only care about yourself then it is something that can be tolerated. But if you have principles and you care about the future of the country in some way or another then it is not that surprising that someone might be against it.

The fabian socialist or marxist have been trying to dissolve the traditional family structure in the west for decades and the social acceptability of homosexuality is just one part of this. The femo nazi movement and the pc brigade are also pushing for this in the west. It starts with small moves towards it by pushing for acceptance in primary schools for cross dressing children and education over normalizing homosexuality. Even to the extent of subtley encouraging it too young children.

I don't want to be sending my child to a school where it grows up with homosexuality pushed in its face by marxist teachers who advocate that male and female identity is a cultural invention.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/yourcommunit...ination-for-men-swedish-politicians-urge.html
http://www.scotsman.com/news/emma-cowing-gender-stereotype-toys-make-me-blue-1-2962382
 
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groen said:
The femo nazi movement
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Just lol.

Stop watching the Glenn Beck show.

On a side note, do you consider yourself a libertarian or do you sway towards authoritarianism?.

RDM said:
Which is a good thing surely?

How is gay marriage being allowed going to impact you? It certainly isn't going to change how I feel about my wife, it isn't going to make me want to have sex with men. What about gay marriage is going to change you and the way you live?
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Exactly, I makes no difference to my life if two men or women get married.

I'm not going to ditch the girlfriend & start hot-dogging it up at the local gay bar if it get's made legal, nothing will change - life will go on.
 
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I don't see marriage as a union of man and woman, but as a union of two people, therefore I don't see a issue with gay marriage at all, providing both parties understand and appreciate the bond they will make from doing so.

Social evolution is happening at quite a rapid rate, and things change as we progress as a species, so why not revisit the definition of marriage to include same sex couples?
 
groen said:
No that is not a good thing.
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Why not? You don't seem to be able to articulate what is wrong with it.

groen said:
Well if you don't have any principles and only care about yourself then it is something that can be tolerated. But if you have principles and you care about the future of the country in some way or another then it is not that surprising that someone might be against it.
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Oddly enough I do have principles and I also care about the future of the country, hence I support greater equality and the unnecessary discrimination against people. I can see no objective that harm will come to the country from allowing homosexuals to marry, so what objective harm do you think that is?

groen said:
The fabian socialist or marxist have been trying to dissolve the traditional family structure in the west for decades and the social acceptability of homosexuality is just one part of this.
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This would be the traditional family structure that you don't believe in as you are opposed to marriage in general? Don't you see that as somewhat hypocritical?

Not to mention that us heterosexuals have done more to dissolve the traditional family structure than any gay person.

groen said:
The femo nazi movement and the pc brigade are also pushing for this in the west. It starts with small moves towards it by pushing for acceptance in primary schools for cross dressing children and education over normalizing homosexuality. Even to the extent of subtley encouraging it too young children.
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Is there any actual content in the above rant?

groen said:
I don't want to be sending my child to a school where it grows up with homosexuality pushed in its face by marxist teachers who advocate that male and female identity is a cultural invention.
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I think you have a very warped understanding of what actually goes on at primary school...
 
Some of the views in this thread would be highly entertaining if it wasn't for the fact that they're serious. The mind boggles that people can have such a perception of the world and completely fail to understand it.
 
I am not the warped one here. How is advocating for the traditional family warped? How is advocating for not brainwashing young children with pro homosexual information warped?

This is what you people do, you twist it all around, here we have our resident white knight feminist calling me authoritarian. Oh the irony.
 
groen said:
I am not the warped one here. How is advocating for the traditional family warped? How is advocating for not brainwashing young children with pro homosexual information warped?
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You like in a fantasy world, where femi nazi communists teachers are trying to turn children gay to instigate a socialist/communist revolution to undermine society.

You are insane, trolling - or incredibly stupid.
 
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