*** League of Legends ***

Jungle changes have put a lot more emphasis on early game invades and counter jungling which I enjoy but find that unless you have a cooperative team you're basically stuck between a rock and a hard place.

It was a needed change to get rid of the blue side advantage which was becoming evident in LCS and professional matches.
 
Borrish said:
Counter-jungling is just part of being a good jungler. You shouldn't expect help from your lanes the same way you're not expected to fend of ganks for them. You can always ping and some of the time the lanes will see it as a free kill and come help but really it's up to you to duel the jungler if you can. The only time I find it frustrating is when the lanes are invading and you're getting no help but to be honest this is rare.

What junglers do you play? You might just be playing junglers who are vulnerable to counter-jungling. I mean every time I see an Amumu I make damn sure I invade because he's useless at dueling early on.
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I own and can use most junglers. Typically I have most success on Vi and Nocturne though because they are capable of dueling in the jungle as you said, although recently i've been trying to play Udyr (without success), Zac and Mao.

Regarding Udyr, i just cant make it work at all, he's renowned for being some kind of awesome 1v1 king yet I tend to be slaughtered by everyone I encounter in the jungle when I play him (J4, Lee Sin, Naut etc) so end up behind like crazy.
How are you guys building him? I tried Phoenix tanky with the aforementioned results, and Tiger has terrible jungle clear and becomes completely useless late game compared to phoenix - who whilst equally useless in the damage department, at least phoenix can push effectively.

I should just give up I reckon and stick to Vi since it works so well.
 
Robbiec053 said:
It was a needed change to get rid of the blue side advantage which was becoming evident in LCS and professional matches.
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Unfortunately it seems the adjustment to the spawn timers hasn't really changed anything as a competent bot lane can still do the double golems and be in lane to grab the xp from the first minion death (though they may miss out on the first cs gold) and get the early level 2 advantage.
This is why you'll still see the lane swaps a lot in competitive play as they haven't really fixed the golem problem in my opinion. Maybe making it spawn even later at 2:00 may be a solution as junglers don't need them until later on in the game anyway 9 times out of 10.
 
Alpherah said:
I own and can use most junglers. Typically I have most success on Vi and Nocturne though because they are capable of dueling in the jungle as you said, although recently i've been trying to play Udyr (without success), Zac and Mao.

Regarding Udyr, i just cant make it work at all, he's renowned for being some kind of awesome 1v1 king yet I tend to be slaughtered by everyone I encounter in the jungle when I play him (J4, Lee Sin, Naut etc) so end up behind like crazy.
How are you guys building him? I tried Phoenix tanky with the aforementioned results, and Tiger has terrible jungle clear and becomes completely useless late game compared to phoenix - who whilst equally useless in the damage department, at least phoenix can push effectively.

I should just give up I reckon and stick to Vi since it works so well.
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I can't really comment on Udyr. I used to play him but I gave up in Season 3 because I found his lack of a decent gap closer to be crippling against heroes with a dash and they became really popular. I main Vi and Jarvan now and I'm with you on not really seeing a reason to bother picking up Udyr again. When I did I used to run Phoenix but I was only Bronze back then so I never got counter-jungled.
 
I think pre-30 Udyr is pretty good, because people can't handle counter-jungling and get flustered when they lose red and potentially have a lvl2-3 death, so the Udyr gets a big advantage.

If you have a jungler that has good ganks pre-6 you can catch up quickly and Udyr becomes less of a threat into late game anyway.
 
Alpherah said:
What does everyone think of the jungle changes?
Really disliking them at the moment (as a jungle main) - shifting 90% of the exp onto the buff monsters is a stupid idea, miss one or two in the first two rounds (0-7 mins) of clearing and your basically useless until the 20-25 min mark in a solo Q game - and of corse no team mate is ever awake to the fact your being counter jungled even if you ward it up and they can see them.
I noticed in 'pro' games, if this happens then the jungle joins a lane to leach exp and catch up but in solo Q you just get shouted at and reported :/ bad times.


re: Udyr.

Tried him again - he still sucks for me.
Not as tanky as Zac / Voli , deals less damage tanky then Zac and Voli, has a higher build cost (which sucks if your a jungler) etc.
I cant see a reason to play him :/
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I second this. It means that there is a lot of buff control needed for the team and it entices invades even more (even though at lower level play people don't really understand the significance of controlling enemy buffs through invading etc). Stealing an enemy jungler's buffs level 1 is very detrimental to their experience throughout the entire game if they can't capitalise on it and react smartly/carefully.
 
So much to whine about in this game, I just cant help myself.

Whiney gripe #18201 - team mates who think SR is ARAM and insist on grouping up in mid as early as possible (usually around 15 mins) and then wonder why they end up level 15 on 40 mins while the enemy has 5 times their CS and level 18.
 
Alpherah said:
So much to whine about in this game, I just cant help myself.

Whiney gripe #18201 - team mates who think SR is ARAM and insist on grouping up in mid as early as possible (usually around 15 mins) and then wonder why they end up level 15 on 40 mins while the enemy has 5 times their CS and level 18.
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If you're grouping mid and the enemy laners aren't coming to defend then you can just push until they decide to come? If they're that far ahead 25 mins later it means you guys did nothing mid.
 
JohnnyDrama said:
The only reason people cry about the jungle changes is because they refuse to ward before 2 minutes
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So true!

But yeah I think counter jungling is a good tactic and I think that especially now with the likes of the Nunu buff (as mentioned above) were going to see much more of it.

I do also think that a support should ward the enemy jungle as they do in the LCS to see where their jungler is so each lane knows when to be aggressive and defensive.
 
Just played with a 'Diamond' player. I say 'Diamond' because he intentionally fed the enemy, and so did his pre-made dumbass. He is in Diamond V, and is playing with Gold players in ranked...
 
benny90125 said:
If you're grouping mid and the enemy laners aren't coming to defend then you can just push until they decide to come? If they're that far ahead 25 mins later it means you guys did nothing mid.
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Mate they literally sat just outside of turret range with 1 or 2 people defending and never pressed forward whilst the other enemies smashed down our top and bottom lane :(
 
Remember, don't flame if your jungle dc's and you have to play your ranked 4v5

This could happen! :p :cool:

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Heh I love when you win a 4v5 in a ranked game, sadly it was our ADC that went afk, but the enemy team got attracted to the noob magnet that was baron not caring that we warded it ^_^
 
Ranked is so painful. I got placed Silver II after my placement matches, but because I always get drawn into playing normals with my mates I haven't played SoloQ for ages and I've now found myself in Bronze I. It's not like I didn't notice my LP gradually decaying and being demoted every now and then, but now that I've been demoted to the cesspit that is Bronze league I thoroughly regret not playing a few ranked games to prevent such a thing happening.

I had a match earlier because I wanted to get back into Silver, and my god two of my team mates were completely brain dead. Our Wu top and Cass mid fed the enemy Aatrox and Ryze respectively early on and I couldn't carry those guys for **** in the end. There were moments where I thought I could (I was playing Quinn with my mate as Thresh and we were winning bot lane quite hard), but despite my advantage compared to their bot lane I couldn't do anything late game because Ryze killed me in like two hits. We were pulling it back mid-game, but then Ryze got a quadra and then it was basically GG.
 
trickycurve said:
Ranked is so painful. I got placed Silver II after my placement matches, but because I always get drawn into playing normals with my mates I haven't played SoloQ for ages and I've now found myself in Bronze I. It's not like I didn't notice my LP gradually decaying and being demoted every now and then, but now that I've been demoted to the cesspit that is Bronze league I thoroughly regret not playing a few ranked games to prevent such a thing happening.
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Sucks dude, thats why I always play a ranked game every so often, even if it meant not playing one with my friends because even if you lost you dont have to worry about decay.

I think its one month of not playing it starts :-(
 
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