Channel 4 to broadcast the Islamic call to prayer every morning during the holy month of Ramadan

Freakbro said:
Here is the thread where I discussed it in more detail - see post #8 & #26

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18375212&highlight=usury+username_freakbro

As posters like Dolph were quite pejoratively vocal about (unfairly imo), they are still getting a return on investment, just that it is a different mechanism than 'interest'

But that is by the by, the more fundamental principle I was interested in with ethical banking is the premise of shared risk of the investment, where both the lender and borrower have an invested interest in the repayment of the loan.

This could help promote responsible lending, something our own system severely lacks.
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There is no principle involved in the actual implementation of these things... they're just workarounds/loopholes so that Muslims who might feel guilty about having a bank account get to feel slightly less guilty.

looks like I was cynical about them in that thread too:

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=21283035&postcount=31

with perhaps a better analogy too:

"It's like an escort claiming that she doesn't perform sex acts for money but rather her clients pay her for her time during which she might choose to have sex. In reality she's still a whore. "
 
muon said:
Except there is no return provided. It's more like an ethical bank account (ethical as defined by sharia law). Lloyd's aren't allowed to invest your money in interest based activities or lend it out.

I agree in what you say when it comes to "Sharia" mortgages and loans.
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I don't know the specific details of the Lloyds scheme but it is possible to profit from deposits by earning 'interest' with a different label.

As for not lending it out - that's very likely a complete farce... I doubt they segregate any of it - banks are required to keep a certain amount of deposits anyway - so long as the sharia compliant accounts don't exceed the funds the bank is holding itself (which they won't as we're only taking about a small % of retail accounts) then they can claim to be fully compliant while still simply chucking it all in the same pot regardless... The bank still has the same overall risks regardless and still has to manage its overall exposure to these risks.
 
dowie said:
I don't know the specific details of the Lloyds scheme but it is possible to profit from deposits by earning 'interest' with a different label.

As for not lending it out - that's very likely a complete farce... I doubt they segregate any of it - banks are required to keep a certain amount of deposits anyway - so long as the sharia compliant accounts don't exceed the funds the bank is holding itself (which they won't as we're only taking about a small % of retail accounts) then they can claim to be fully compliant while still simply chucking it all in the same pot regardless... The bank still has the same overall risks regardless and still has to manage its overall exposure to these risks.
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I agree with your comment about reserves. However, Muslims are still safe in knowing that their money isn't directly being used in what they would classify as usury.
 
muon said:
I agree with your comment about reserves. However, Muslims are still safe in knowing that their money isn't directly being used in what they would classify as usury.
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while they can pretend in their head that their money doesn't get lent out is it a reasonable assumption that should the conventional bank offering these accounts go bust they will be forced to get compensated by the govt scheme just like anyone else? Or do you expect that those funds are absolutely segregated and therefore risk free in the event of the bank collapsing?

its just a workaround to get past some old law which was put in place to stop people being taken advantage of by the historic equivalent of a pay day lender.

a Muslim former co-worker regularly 'trades' 'forex' though apparently wouldn't ever gamble... and genuinely doesn't see any contradiction in that
 
Castiel said:
haha, I read this at about 5am this morning and I bet my wife that someone would start a thread on it before we went to bed tonight, she said that no one would bother with something so trivial......cheers to the OP, I now have a favour logged in the Bank of Wife.
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Your wife doesn't visit the forums very often then?


Wonderful bit if free publicity for Channel 4. Costs almost nothing to do, and attracts loads of press attention. File me under "So what". I've wracked my brains and am unable to find a single way in which this affects anyone.
 
dowie said:
well that's just using gambling as a metaphore

I was talking about wagering money on an uncertain event
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Not really, gambling doesn't have to involve money. It's less me using as a metaphor and more you using 'gambling' in only one, narrow sense.

But anyway, can't be arsed to argue semantics, it's too late.
 
estebanrey said:
Not really, gambling doesn't have to involve money. It's less me using as a metaphor and more you using 'gambling' in only one, narrow sense.

But anyway, can't be arsed to argue semantics, it's too late.
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me neither but I ought to point out that the word originates from gaming.. placing wagers

yes its frequently used metaphorically, as a result of that, to describe taking a risk
 
Dear me, what did I miss. 10 pages because a TV channel decided to broadcast a 60sec announcement 3am in the morning for 30 days!! Dem bloody Muziez, next they will want the right to vote!!
 
godinman said:
I don't see why this is an issue, there are chuffing loads of Muslims in this country and C4 are doing something for them during their holy month..the problem is?
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It indicates a change in society, namely that a religious-political system strongly orientated towards having power has quite a bit more power than it used to have. If it gets enough, then very big changes will occur that will effect every aspect of life, changes that many people don't want.

It's reasonable to be concerned about that.

But it's much easier to go with the norm and villify anyone who doesn't by saying that they are stupid bigots.
 
Craterloads said:
Dear me, what did I miss. 10 pages because a TV channel decided to broadcast a 60sec announcement 3am in the morning for 30 days!! Dem bloody Muziez, next they will want the right to vote!!
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Absolutely - its both ridiculous and amusing that people would get wound up about a short broadcast which they likely won't ever watch... Likewise the reaction to a Danish newspaper printing a certain cartoon a few years ago... (of 99.99% of the protestors had never read the particular newspaper or seen the cartoon)... not to mention the book Mr Rushdie published.

Bigots on both sides and they're as retarded as each other... It affects no one really if a TV station wants to broadcast something of significance to some group's religion - there is enough 'Christmas' broadcasting so why not other religions too. Likewise the broadcasting of something criticising and/or mocking religion shouldn't be an issue either. Monty Python's the Life of Brian is fantastic, the 90's TV show Fist of Fun had regular sketches which made a mockery of Christianity. It would be nice TV networks also had the balls to mock Islam too - Southpark for example had to have it's program (which depicted Mohammed) censored partly because there are a significant portion of people following that particular religion who would likely react with violence. Still we're getting progressively more liberal as a society so hopefully one day no beliefs/views will be a taboo subject as far as either criticism or comedy are concerned.
 
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Angilion said:
It indicates a change in society, namely that a religious-political system strongly orientated towards having power has quite a bit more power than it used to have. If it gets enough, then very big changes will occur that will effect every aspect of life, changes that many people don't want.

It's reasonable to be concerned about that.

But it's much easier to go with the norm and villify anyone who doesn't by saying that they are stupid bigots.
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Well said mate, the apologists in this country for the evil that goes on in the name of Islam should be ashamed of themselves. People saying it's fine to propagate this barbaric religion are a joke. I'm sure the 20 thousand girls in the UK a year who have their clitoris butchered wouldn't agree. How about the over 3 thousand Muslims here under active surveillance by the security services yup no problem there either, ah yeah let's forget about the 100 sahria courts and the Saudi backed mosques promoting hate of our life style and fostering Muslim vs Muslim (Sunni/Shia) sectarian violence, no problem at all lol.

Just wait till you end up living in a town or city where they are the majority, because I'm damn sure most if not all who have no issue with Islam don't live in a place like that and when they do, they will understand what it feels like to be a stranger in your own country, simply look at the amount of terrorists that has been pumped out of places like Luton and Birmingham I'm sure you'll be filled with pride once it starts happening where you live right?


I love people of every race colour and creed but the intellectual dishonesty by some people is truly astounding.
 
Angilion said:
It indicates a change in society, namely that a religious-political system strongly orientated towards having power has quite a bit more power than it used to have.
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Only the power to command advertising. AFAIK C4 has to raise its own revenue, and they see Islam as a market to be tapped. The can also know a good publicity stunt when the see one, and this is a good one. And these forums are full of people falling for it.
 
dowie said:
Absolutely - its both ridiculous and amusing that people would get wound up about a short broadcast which they likely won't ever watch...
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From what I can tell there are a lot of people commenting that they are amused at the reaction, but almost nobody in here apart from groen who has actually reacted :confused: I'm assuming that all the negative feedback to this is coming from elsewhere on the Internet?
Most of the posts in here are of the generic LOLIslam form.

These celebrations appear to be a good thing, because the 0.01% stop beheading people for a month,

which is nice.
 
MiKeOnE10110 said:
I love people of every race colour and creed but the intellectual dishonesty by some people is truly astounding.
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Agree totally with your post.

It's astonishing how many Islamophiles we have in the audience. People I know who previously had nothing nice to say about them are now rabid apologists.

"You can't judge them all by the actions of a few" is like the feeble-minded's mantra of the month.

For some ungodly reason I can't figure out, telling everyone, constantly, how "un-racist" you are is the new black. It's disingenuous and boring.
 
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