Benefits to be a human right?

[StriderX]

How would you enforce such a policy?

For the first child, you get given your benefits, as you do now, but at the second child, your tax is cut.

For the third child, the tax cut is removed and the fourth a caution, fifth...fostering both the fourth and fifth child and a final warning before they are all removed.

 

[RDM]

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/fears-more-suicides-over-bedroom-4325718

I hadn't realised Birmingham was in Northern Ireland. That's aside from the fact that suicide is rarely so simple that a single thing is the cause.

Please do some research on it before calling me a liar.

I didn't call you a liar, I just suggested that your policy was ill-informed and ill-thought out.

And for the record im all for human rights for all but those rights should only extend to your own country. By coming to another country and using your human rights as they stand you take away those rights from someone native due to competition over resources etc.

So you are not actually interested in human rights but instead national rights? Human rights, by their very definition, apply to all human beings.

 

[Xordium]

For the first child, you get given your benefits, as you do now, but at the second child, your tax is cut.

For the third child, the tax cut is removed and the fourth a caution, fifth...fostering both the fourth and fifth child and a final warning before they are all removed.

So you would penalise the kids for the actions of their parents?
You would magic foster care that doesn't exist?

 

[StriderX]

So you would penalise the kids for the actions of their parents?
You would magic foster care that doesn't exist?

Doesn't exist?

I beg to differ, we need to make it clear that you cannot just do as you please, if they wish to live as outcasts, let them.

There is always that option of course, but that is where the system ends for them, there is still time to flesh this out, I do not presume to know everything about the social dynamic of this, but anything is better than just allowing the birthrates to collapse.

 

[Dolph]

For the first child, you get given your benefits, as you do now, but at the second child, your tax is cut.

For the third child, the tax cut is removed and the fourth a caution, fifth...fostering both the fourth and fifth child and a final warning before they are all removed.

Wow, what an absolutely disgusting idea.

 

[Amp34]

Yea but the majority of people do not see it that way mate and think its fine to call people scroungers and such.I think that in the human mind some people are just not wired to be employee's.Some of us yearn for freedom and to do our own thing in life.I am wowed by some of the youtube videos of how to grow your own food etc.They user a simple greenhouse with fish and plants and recycle the waste so the fish and plants compliment one another in a circle of life.


Originally the land would have been snapped up by someone who settled it for nothing just like when the americans settled the wild west.All you needed was a sign in the ground to claim your plot of land.Eventually that person handed it down to his children who might of sold it into private hands.Eventually you end up with nothing left for anyone else.And the way the current system works is lobsided towards anyone with money.So the more money you have the more land you can buy and lease out.Then with those profits you can go and buy even more land.


Where does it stop? One day will the ancestors of bill gates or carlos slim own every bit of land in America and Mexico and the whole population will become slaves begging for use of the land for some food etc.Well no it might not become that extreme but they will use that money somehow and im guessing land is the best investment you can make as everyone needs it and everyone wants it.

That's why people like bill gates are where they are, why there are so many independeltly owned businesses and self employed. Many of the rich people you seem to so despise started by being people who didn't want to be employed and wanted to do their own thing.

As for wanting a little piece of land to do your own thing you can buy a plot of land in the countryside for a few thousand, agricultural land and woodland isn't expensive. For the price of an average UK house you can buy anything from a few tens to hundreds/thousands of acres of farmland, woodland or moorland that you can do your own sustainable life.

If you really want go it alone there are plenty of places around the world you could set up a dwelling and subsistence farm for very little political/beaurocratic effort.

 

[StriderX]

Wow, what an absolutely disgusting idea.

I assume it is the final part that is the issue?

I do see it and concede that it is likely a social detriment.

 

[Rofflay]

Aside from the fact hippies make more sense than your rants...

Fraccing.

Sorry but at least being a Hippy is the decent thing to do.I would rather be a Hippy than a greedy slave supporting right winger thanks.


And its called Fracking.And thats the problem i talked about it certain people who got lucky owning land which is due to be fracked will become really rich when in reality those resources should be shared by everyone.The benefit system does go some way in helping to share those resources but people are now looking to stop this and cut benefits.What kind of system are we going to move towards then with benefit cuts?Throw the poor out on the street to starve? Some people really need to sit down and look into the topic in depth both present and future and see how it will pan out.

As for wanting a little piece of land to do your own thing you can buy a plot of land in the countryside for a few thousand, agricultural land and woodland isn't expensive. For the price of an average UK house you can buy anything from a few tens to hundreds/thousands of acres of farmland, woodland or moorland that you can do your own sustainable life.

If you really want go it alone there are plenty of places around the world you could set up a dwelling and subsistence farm for very little political/beaurocratic effort.

So i have to move to where exactly to buy this cheap land for a few thousand? The last time i checked land cost a hell of a lot more than a few thousand.And where do you get this money from? Yea you have to go and do some slave labour for some rich folk who will hand you down some pennies so you can save up to buy what in reality should be your god given right.You should not need any money to have somewhere to live off that is the whole point of this thread!

 

[StriderX]

Ahah Rofflay, you should eventually realise that the benefits system is not about sharing, it is about controlling.

If it was about sharing, we would be in a utopia compared to what we have.

 

[Xordium]

Doesn't exist?

I beg to differ, we need to make it clear that you cannot just do as you please, if they wish to live as outcasts, let them.

There is always that option of course, but that is where the system ends for them, there is still time to flesh this out, I do not presume to know everything about the social dynamic of this, but anything is better than just allowing the birthrates to collapse.

You beg to differ.

Do you have any evidence to show that there is an abundance of foster care because I think everything I have ever seen shows the opposite.

Not only is your idea abhorrent but also impractical.

 

[StriderX]

You beg to differ.

Do you have any evidence to show that there is an abundance of foster care because I think everything I have ever seen shows the opposite.

Not only is your idea abhorrent but also impractical.

Considering your idea, I think mine looks mild.

 

[Neil79]

Benefits should go to the Disabled and Pentioners depending on their income!

It disgusts me to see tons of chavs with kids, smoking getting drunk while people that have disabilities are struggling. It's because of those chavs that benefits have such a stigma of being SCROUNGERS!

 

[Xordium]

Considering your idea, I think mine looks mild.

Yer, but mine was said in jest with a subtle reference to a rather good film ... you're actually attempting to defend the undefendable.

 

[LOAM]

All sounds like a Robert Mugabe style land grab to be honest OP.

 

[StriderX]

Yer, but mine was said in jest with a subtle reference to a rather good film ... you're actually attempting to defend the undefendable.

Meh, at least i have an idea...one that i thought up on the spot as well, it is after all a serious issue that our society WILL have to deal with.

 

[Rofflay]

I hadn't realised Birmingham was in Northern Ireland. That's aside from the fact that suicide is rarely so simple that a single thing is the cause.




I didn't call you a liar, I just suggested that your policy was ill-informed and ill-thought out.



So you are not actually interested in human rights but instead national rights? Human rights, by their very definition, apply to all human beings.

Hyperbole (/haɪˈpɜrbəliː/ hy-PUR-bə-lee;[1] Greek: ὑπερβολή hyperbolē, "exaggeration") is the use of exaggeration as a rhetorical device or figure of speech. It may be used to evoke strong feelings or to create a strong impression, but is not meant to be taken literally.[2]



No you never called me a liar directly you just decided to act smart by using the word Hyperbole instead of liar.I will give you props on highlighting the errors i made though.I should call it national rights over human rights and i will from now on.

Meh, at least i have an idea...one that i thought up on the spot as well, it is after all a serious issue that our society WILL have to deal with.

At least he had something to say or an idea to put out there.What did the rest of you offer up apart from sarcastic and burying your heads in the sand like an ostrich? Eventually there will come a day soon when you will look back and think, you know that guy actually had a point about birth rates! there are so many people in the UK now and 7 billion worldwide that in the next 100 years we are probably going to start having shortages in power and fresh water.Its not as if he wants to round people up and kill them.he just wants people to be decent caring folk and stop churning out more children than the country can support.


I would never dream of having more than two kids as i know the UK population is at a healthy level and a birth rate of two kids per couple is enough to sustain the population.Anything more than two kids per family is simply the height of stupidity when we are already struggling as a nation and as a species.That is not even taking into account the massive amount of immigration either.

 

[subbytna]

I read the title, the link was to the sun news paper........that was enough for me.

Exactly...why loads on here bleat about the Daily Mail yet will happily read anything from the S*n rag, is beyond me.

 

[elmarko]

you can be economically left wing and socially authoritarian at the same time. in fact, left wing economics is best described as fiscal authoritarianism, as evidenced by your position that the state should decide who gets property irrespective of current ownership.

I'd also argue that economic libertarianism ends up as a plutocracy, as you are only as economically free as your bank balance.

Economic freedom in a truly liberal economic system is limited to how much capital you have (making it not that free for 99% of the population).

I do agree on the first part, I'm fiscally authoritarian because liberal economics leads to a reduction in freedoms for the majority (as they do the work, but will receive an insignificant amount of the reward for the labour).

I don't believe you can have perfect economic liberty & personal liberty at the same time, as total economic liberty doesn't enforce those with the capital to distribute the rewards fairly, as profit is the singular drive for capitalism (not social cohesion or the betterment of mankind).

We can argue if that's a good or bad thing, but economic freedom doesn't result in actual freedom for the majority - quite the opposite, it simply empowers the plutocrats.

We need a two-child policy of some sort some time soon, this 1.5 child business is reckless and dangerous for the future society.

This is of course globally, but it really matters mostly for the West due to the nature of the 1.5 child.

Plenty of methods exist at reducing population growth without causing mass objective human suffering or collective punishment.

Free contraception, further sex education, female empowerment (most for women who arrive from nations with reduced equality), teaching temporal discounting at an early age (yield massive social benefits potentially according to a few studies if it can be achieved) - all without causing additional suffering.

 

[Rofflay]

Economic freedom in a truly liberal economic system is limited to how much capital you have (making it not that free for 99% of the population).

I do agree on the first part, I'm fiscally authoritarian because liberal economics leads to a reduction in freedoms for the majority (as they do the work, but will receive an insignificant amount of the reward for the labour).

Plus they have to be taxed to support other people who could easily support themselves given the right resources.Creating even more hatred between us.I agree on what you say though it works for the 1% and screws the 99% unless the state does intervene with a heavy handed and fair for all policy.I have always held the view that the state needs to take control as left to our own devices we naturally tend to screw each other over.


Greed is something we just have not managed to evolve out of yet.

 

[Hatter The Mad]

No surprise from The Sun there. It's a shame though, a standard citizens payment type welfare and a negative income tax would be quite a positive thing and should be debated.