Securing a graduate job is just ridiculous

[Gideon Lorr]

Sorry to hear that. I was actually thinking of the same. Learning the basics of C++ whilst searching for a job could end up being an invaluable addition. I am trying to think of ways to occupy myself as much as possible as to not have a gap in my CV. Luckily I have a small bit of savings from my final loan to keep me going money wise but I feel like the opportunity cost of using my time applying for part time jobs rather then full time jobs I wish to make a career out of is quite large!

Have a look temping/recruitment agencies for part time work. I'm currently signing up to them, with the hope that they can reduce the hours I put into searching for that kind of work.

Some of the job adverts are at times hilarious though. A cleaner job I saw wanted experienced applicants only. Only goes to demonstrate the weakness of the job market if employers can afford to be so choosing.

 

[Mr Jones]

Never underestimate going into a company, right from the bottom. Through getting noticed, you can get into specific jobs via internal applications - which has a lot more success.

Plus, you get to learn about the company and interview will be easier too.

 

[M1k3H]

Graduated last year, applied to over 50 companies, got called for interview by two of them, one accepted me and I'm now working full time.

Patience mate.

 

[Nix]

I graduated 2008 and still don't have a proper job. The train-tracks are certainly beginning to look appealing.

Yeah, patience.

 

[manjuice]

I concur, what a load of crap.

Most grad schemes you will be starting on 20-30k, potentially with good benefits. There is huge room for improvement after just a couple of years though.

Believe what you want but the big companies in banking/mechanical/consultancy/oil&gas grad schemes I know have starting salaries of well over £30k. Just check their graduate website, these are the figures.

Some companies (technology programmes) I was unsuccessful to applying to were HSBC (£38,000 starting), Barclays (£36,000 + £8k bonus), Shell (£33k+).

My mates brother worked for PwC's grad scheme and he finished it last year and now he's earning £48,000.

I'm not saying these are the salaries to expect when you graduate but I want to say there are jobs out there as long as you have a good degree and you can sell yourself well.

 

[dowie]

If you can prove you can code you can get onto the grad schemes for IT in IB without comp sci qualifications. I did last year (though didn't meet the 2.1 needed )

think CITI would be ok for IT... GS also apparently doesn't have a minimum grade though your CV would likely have to have something else to make it stand out.

Failing that just join a FinTech vendor and have the option to move across later.

 

[dowie]

Thanks for the feedback. And I completely understand that. Yes I have a 2:1 and work experience at BarCap and Citi, however the 2:1 isn't exactly from the most high profile university!

What roles in those sorts of banks are you actually trying to apply to? Perhaps figure out the actual job you want to do, don't concentrate on grad schemes per say but rather where you can pursue that job... it doesn't always have to be at a big bank.

Say you've been pursing technology grad schemes - consider a relevant financial software or market data vendor instead. Perhpas look at technology roles at exchanges, ECNs, brokers etc... too.

Maybe middle office stuff? - there are various relevant vendors out there too... or perhpas go becoming an accountant and try for product control roles later.

front office sales roles - try the various brokers too icap, bgc etc... they're not going to be that picky academically given the sort of people they employ though if you can't sell yourself to a firm in that area then you're likely going to be useless at the job anyway so move on....

trading roles - what about tier 2 banks or options market making firms such as optiver, tibra etc...?

rather than worry about getting on a 'grad scheme' perhaps pick an actual job you have in mind and find a way to get into that sort of job - you don't necessarily *have* to start that job at a big bank everyone knows the name of

 

[dowie]

I concur, what a load of crap.

Most grad schemes you will be starting on 20-30k, potentially with good benefits. There is huge room for improvement after just a couple of years though.

for the industry the OP is looking at they'll generally start a bit higher than that

 

[manjuice]

for the industry the OP is looking at they'll generally start a bit higher than that

Location is also a big factor. JP Morgan in Scotland £30,000. JP Morgan in London £35,000. Same grad scheme.

 

[supergt]

What roles in those sorts of banks are you actually trying to apply to? Perhaps figure out the actual job you want to do, don't concentrate on grad schemes per say but rather where you can pursue that job... it doesn't always have to be at a big bank.

Say you've been pursing technology grad schemes - consider a relevant financial software or market data vendor instead. Perhpas look at technology roles at exchanges, ECNs, brokers etc... too.

Maybe middle office stuff? - there are various relevant vendors out there too... or perhpas go becoming an accountant and try for product control roles later.

front office sales roles - try the various brokers too icap, bgc etc... they're not going to be that picky academically given the sort of people they employ though if you can't sell yourself to a firm in that area then you're likely going to be useless at the job anyway so move on....

trading roles - what about tier 2 banks or options market making firms such as optiver, tibra etc...?

rather than worry about getting on a 'grad scheme' perhaps pick an actual job you have in mind and find a way to get into that sort of job - you don't necessarily *have* to start that job at a big bank everyone knows the name of

Ideal perfect role would be equities trading or even research. I am not even going near the top tier banks, I've found a list of boutique London banks however tier 2 trading houses are harder as they either require a P/L track record or an initial contribution. I haven't checked out Optiver or Tibra yet though so thanks for those. Just to confirm I am not looking for a job at a big name bank I am trying to focus on the lesser known to increase my chances!

Edit: Actually realised did check out Optiver but they only list jobs in Amsterdam for Europe

 

[Gideon Lorr]

Believe what you want but the big companies in banking/mechanical/consultancy/oil&gas grad schemes I know have starting salaries of well over £30k. Just check their graduate website, these are the figures.

Some companies (technology programmes) I was unsuccessful to applying to were HSBC (£38,000 starting), Barclays (£36,000 + £8k bonus), Shell (£33k+).

My mates brother worked for PwC's grad scheme and he finished it last year and now he's earning £48,000.

I'm not saying these are the salaries to expect when you graduate but I want to say there are jobs out there as long as you have a good degree and you can sell yourself well.

Yep, a guy on my course did a placement year at Moran Stanley and earned himself £30k.

 

[Judgeneo]

Edit: Actually realised did check out Optiver but they only list jobs in Amsterdam for Europe

Optiver in Amsterdam is pretty awesome tbh. Its worth going through the application process as they stick you up in a nice hotel over there, which you can exploit to have a quick city break




I know lots of you guys won't believe it, but some graduate jobs do pay serious money. Most are £25K + location modifier, but some can be much higher. A good law firm will pay £60k whilst training, and more after that. One friend of mine started on £90k (put in above graduate position due to exceptional internship performance), and I know more earning above £30k outside London too (though not me )

 

[BigglesPiP]

I got an internship with IBM about a week before the credit crunch kicked off (I remember the news the day before was that we were heading for a food shortage, LOL!)

That's mostly how I came to get a graduate job there 3 years ago. But for those three years they have been hiring record numbers of Grads each year. Combination of grabbing the talent while nobody else is hiring and that there is a wave of retirees at the moment.

I'm talking about Engineers here. Are there any other companies hiring like mad now?

 

[qqg3]

I agree with everything you said OP.

But. If you have applied to 30-ish jobs, I think you need to work a little harder. I graduated last summer (not economics), got an internship but was applying every spare moment I had to any position that looked even remotely promising. On top of throwing out emails, phone calls etc and trying to find avenues.

You should be doing maybe, at a minimum, 30 applications a week. Things are tough, hit the road hard. It will pay off.

I went through lots of phone interviews, pointless questions, rounds of interviews until I got my first offer.

 

[Nitefly]

[bragging] Well I literally just got my third offer a few minutes ago. [/bragging]

Surely you guys must be doing something wrong to have such trouble, have you got opinions from your university careers offices and/or good recruiters?

I wouldn't hire you. Just sayin'! Modesty goes a long way, not why sure why would make such an abysmally poor comment in a thread like this.

A good law firm will pay £60k whilst training, and more after that.

On an american law firm would pay such a hugh wage and with the american law tag comes the american law work life balance (hint - none).

 

[Ev0]

I got an internship with IBM about a week before the credit crunch kicked off (I remember the news the day before was that we were heading for a food shortage, LOL!)

That's mostly how I came to get a graduate job there 3 years ago. But for those three years they have been hiring record numbers of Grads each year. Combination of grabbing the talent while nobody else is hiring and that there is a wave of retirees at the moment.

I'm talking about Engineers here. Are there any other companies hiring like mad now?

As well as quite a few redundancies

IBM generally take on a lot of grads, not just when nobody else is.

I forget the stats now but I think it was something like 10% of applicants end up with a grad/apprentice offer.

 

[Judgeneo]

I wouldn't hire you. Just sayin'! Modesty goes a long way, not why sure why would make such an abysmally poor comment in a thread like this.



On an american law firm would pay such a hugh wage and with the american law tag comes the american law work life balance (hint - none).

True, they have to live to work, and looking back, it perhaps wasn't the best thing to say

 

[Nitefly]

True, they have to live to work, and looking back, it perhaps wasn't the best thing to say

Don't sweat it bro, just be aware of how you might come across and consider your audience. One of my many .... 'sayings', is that you should only crow when necessary.

Also, only be smart and serious when you need to be \o/

But I'm a tard so who cares what I think.

 

[dowie]

I haven't checked out Optiver or Tibra yet though so thanks for those. Just to confirm I am not looking for a job at a big name bank I am trying to focus on the lesser known to increase my chances!

Edit: Actually realised did check out Optiver but they only list jobs in Amsterdam for Europe

so what? get on a plane...

what about other similar firms - SIG (European office in Dublin), Mako, liquid capital

also note these are options market makers - for equity research you should probably target asset management firms and start working towards your CFA... don't know much about that area tbh...

reason I cited these firms is that they're generally less interested in brand names on cv but rather will have anyone with a 2:1 come along and sit their tests - usually a few rounds of maths tests, IQ type tests, interviews where the interviewer will randomly throw in bits of mental arithmetic and expect an answer back from you fairly quickly... most people will get filtered out fairly quickly but at least you'll have a shot at the process. Also consider that lots of people don't last long at these firms even if they get the job - then again if you do well at one of these places you'll be very well rewarded.

 

[Sudden]

Don't sweat it bro, just be aware of how you might come across and consider your audience. One of my many .... 'sayings', is that you should only crow when necessary.

Also, only be smart and serious when you need to be \o/

But I'm a tard so who cares what I think.

I like "Never assume malice for what stupidity can explain".

Would much rather (and do) believe that people are idiots than just plain mean.