More ignorance - is this all piracy or is it legal?

[Begbie]

Are you asking as you don't want to break the law or out of curiosity?

 

[Westyfield2]

My NAS has many terabytes of Movies/TV Shows/Movies.

Most are ripped by myself, and the CDs/DVD/Blu-Rays are in boxes in the loft if you want to go check. These are just the feature movie file saved in MKV (a million times more convenient to just watch the movie on the HTPC rather than sitting through all the stealing handbag rubbish) and the files remain on my NAS, they are not shared/uploaded or anything. Legal? No. Moral? Yes.

A small minority are ones that I have torrented. A couple are because I've bought them once already on LP/VHS and I want on a more convenient format, but mostly they're because they have not been released on DVD/Blu-Ray here in the UK, and they're the ones I CBA to import (whereas some of my collection have been imported). Legal? No. Moral? Questionable. Justifiable? If they were released in the UK, I'd have bought them legit. In-fact, when they are finally released in the UK I'll probably go and buy them just to make a point.

 

[lucid]

SO knowledge is wrong? Someone not knowing something makes them a "troll"??
Wanting to do something properly is a cause of abuse??? [Who is Dr Evil anyway?]
I suggest you take note the date when I joined this forum. I have bought from OC well before I joined too.

You would do well to keep your insinuations to your own dirty mind.
If this is what you consider "help", I suggest you keep it to your sad self and not accuse others of illegalities that you obviously are well informed of.


I am planning to setup a system that's anyone in the house can use from any room. Both my partner and my son will benefit from this [as will I, as it should stop arguments ]. I still don't know the cheapest way to do it, though I do have a fully cabled up house and a number of RPis around.

I spend most of my time on my bed, dosed up with morphine - this seemed an interesting project to pass the waking periods [day or night ]
I have been asking on here as it gives me a written answer - I forget too much these days due to all the trash I have to take..... Google isn't my friend cos I keep forgetting what I read! :lol:


I am NOT a movie buff, though I have 40 odd DVDs. Equally I am not an audiophile though I have many CDs - most of which I haven't listened to in years. The rest of the family has their own stuff too.

I also watch very little television

You come on here asking all sorts of very vague and quite frankly rather suspicious sounding questions, then you go off on one as soon as someone challenges your motives. I'm not the only one who found your approach very suspicious. I just happen to the the first with the balls and honesty to come right out and say it. So pull your neck in, alright?

Oh, and if your condition means that you need a bit of extra help then be up front about it. Set out your reasoning as clearly as you can and give us some context. By the sounds of it it will help you when you come back to reread the information at a later date.

Despite what you probably think, I'm no ogre. But if you're the one coming here asking for our help then be prepared to pay a little courtesy forward to those who are prepared to give their own free time to assist in your quest. Do that and you'll find that it pays dividends back. You'd do well to bear this in mind in future.

I have NO idea on the rules on this;

Your "for the purpose of viewing at a more convenient time" - means you delete it after you watch it? Do YOU?
Or is there the grossly mocked "implied license" to keep it for personal use?
Can you watch something MORE than once, or must you download it again? I wonder, as Sky does not delete stuff on their box once it is viewed.

"Do I delete after watching?" Yes. My little lad has some stuff that he's watched a few times over. But that's young kids for you. It's usually a couple of weeks until he's bored of it, then it goes too.

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at with this "implied license" rubbish. I've already explained in perfect clarity; There is no implication that owning a recording device gives you any right to keep a time shift recording in perpetuity. What's so difficult to understand about that?

"Can you watch something MORE than once, " Already covered. See above.

"or must you download it again? "Well if it's a TV transmission then you're not "downloading" anything at all. It's a recording that you're playing back. I would have thought that was obvious, no? But just because the content remains on the box then it doesn't mean you have the right to keep a copy of it beyond what could be termed a reasonable length of time for a time shift recording to be viewed.

You can download programmes from catchup services such as BBC iPlayer. These are time limited. They normally expire within a week. Similarly, if you buy and download a pay-per-view movie from Sky then you watch it once and the box then erases the content. If you think about it it works the same way as a live pay-per-view (PPV). You watch it that at the time then it's over. So downloading the PPV is no different. You can pause it or even stop it and pick up later. But once you've watched the whole thing then it's automatically erased.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

Fine.

So its stuff you own, otherwise its piracy.

Fairy Snuff.

As I have never been a music or film buff [or TV as far as that goes] I wont have much! :lol:

So these PC cards for TV/SAT are just for watching? Or is there an implied licence that lets you store and keep that which you have downloaded?

Your not into music, TV or film? Yet you want to set up or know about a streaming system? Why?

 

[miker1]

Your not into music, TV or film? Yet you want to set up or know about a streaming system? Why?

Something to do that I thought was in my abilities to do. I thought it would be fun and pass the time. I may have made an error there though .
Hardware is not really a problem - its the software I cant get my head around - must be a generational thing [that or retarded brain...].
However until I suss the software, its pointless buying the hardware.

I am a tech nerd - I love playing with new things [hence coming across OC many years ago]

I had my first computer in 1975 when my dad got a Altair 8800 kit from the USA. He did the all soldering - well he is an electronics geek who used to build TVs for a hobby [as in design and make all the circuit boards etc....]

I just played with the toggles..I started programming in 1979 and stopped in 2007 when I couldn't work any longer.

 

[miker1]

@lucid
"You come on here asking all sorts of very vague and quite frankly rather suspicious sounding questions, then you go off on one as soon as someone challenges your motives. I'm not the only one who found your approach very suspicious. I just happen to the the first with the balls and honesty to come right out and say it. So pull your neck in, alright?"

Why is my question suspicious? It was a question. I am sure there are other places on the internet that have links on piracy. I come here for questions because, mostly, the people are knowledgeable AND friendly. As I pointed out to you I have been here since 2003 [and buying before].

If it was vague, I apologise.

Me pull in MY neck????
Your very offensive attack[and it was both those things]; "So now I'm smelling either a big fat hairy troll or someone looking to profiteer from a bit of piracy and who is abusing the good nature of the folks who are here willing to offer help to those who come with genuine intentions. Which are you? "
labels me a liar or some sort of fraud, with no other option. I am, in your opinion, either one or the other.

You say you are no ogre but you make yourself sound just like one of those boorish bullies who say things "well, I speak like I find" or other crap to justify rudeness.

To my knowledge I have never been anything BUT courteous. YOU attacked me - I responded in YOUR vein!

My physical problems are my own - I happened to mention it to try and make you understand WHY I was asking.

The only bit of pirating I have done was MANY years ago - twas a very early version of MS Office and it came from an alt.binaries link. I wanted to see if it was worth buying.


Anyway - you misunderstood my Sky question. I don't mean the paid for view stuff. I mean the films and tv series that you can record on the Sky box.

Unless I delete them to make space, they are on there forever - no matter how many times they are viewed. How is this different? Is it because they are encrypted?

 

[Glaucus]

When you buy a DVD or Blu-Ray you usually buy the rights to the film not the disc so you can do what you want with it as far as it says which is usually home use only.

Not in the uk, but no one will come knocking.

 

[alias86]

Yes i have a media server full of movies and films. But in the UK i doubt anyone will ask questions.

i think they are more interested in with ppl that sell the copies afterward. i thought it was legal to make a backup anyway

 

[visibleman]

Unless the law has changed for DVD/Blu Ray it's still illegal to break the copy protection baked into most disks though.

This appears to be the long and short of it after speaking to a solicitor friend. So ripping audio CD's is apparently OK; ripping DVD's or BD's and breaking encryption isn't however.
No idea if ripping a DVD/BD and keeping the encryption intact is legal, I'd assume it would be tbh.

 

[FrankJH]

No idea if ripping a DVD/BD and keeping the encryption intact is legal, I'd assume it would be tbh.

Im not entirely sure this is possible

(I havent yet come across software that allows you to keep the encryption while ripping / allows you to read/install decryption on the htpc)

The other thing to consider is licensing and cost of it. Is anyone (from a home perspective) likely to licence two pcs (the ripper and the htpc) when only one is necessary? I would suggest this is unlikely

 

[Raymond Lin]

Im not entirely sure this is possible

(I havent yet come across software that allows you to keep the encryption while ripping / allows you to read/install decryption on the htpc)

The other thing to consider is licensing and cost of it. Is anyone (from a home perspective) likely to licence two pcs (the ripper and the htpc) when only one is necessary? I would suggest this is unlikely

I have 3 PCs, all have their own licence for the OS.

(It came with it being a Mac)

p.s. ouch.

 

[lucid]

Why is my question suspicious? It was a question.

Really? Seriously?? You genuinely can't understand how others could view your questions as suspicious after the all the other answers you got and yet you kept banging on "is it illegal, is it illegal, can I keep it, implied license". Try to look at it from an outsiders point of view then you'll see what I and other spotted when we made our comments to that effect.


Next:

I come here for questions because, mostly, the people are knowledgeable AND friendly. As I pointed out to you I have been here since 2003 [and buying before].?

Quite what "how long you've been a member" and whether you "bought previously" has to do with this I have no idea.

Whether you realise it of not, I have been knowledgeable and friendly towards you. Look at the evidence in this thread. Who gave you the most comprehensive answers?.... Me! Also look at your previous HTPC related question "Dummies guide needed! What is scraping?" Once again I provided you with the most comprehensive reply. It's only your own responses here that have created this rather odd impression that you are someone with little interest in movies and music yet seem fascinated about the whole illegal download scene.

Had you stated from the beginning that this was for the whole family and explained a little more of the background (as you were finally cajoled in to doing) then all would have been well. But you didn't. So come on, look at it objectively. Can you understand what sort of impression that creates?

My physical problems are my own - I happened to mention it to try and make you understand WHY I was asking.

Yes, but you closed that stable door after the horse had bolted.

TBH I'm not the least bit interested in yours or anyone else's physical problems. That's not me being callous. If you have an infirmity or disability what I need to know up front is how to adjust my approach when dealing with you.

My wife is registered deaf. She doesn't make a big deal out of it. When she has dealings with someone new she simply states matter-of-factly that she's deaf and asks the other person to look at her when they speak and to speak a little more slowly. That's all she needs, and it means that the other person knows up-front to make an allowance. It's very simple. It prevents misunderstandings arising.

I said it before and I'll repeat it now; You could have (and IMO, should have) done the same if your condition means that others need to make allowances.

Anyway - you misunderstood my Sky question. I don't mean the paid for view stuff. I mean the films and tv series that you can record on the Sky box.

Unless I delete them to make space, they are on there forever - no matter how many times they are viewed. How is this different? Is it because they are encrypted?

I'm not sure I have misunderstood your Sky question. I answered it directly...

But just because the content remains on the box then it doesn't mean you have the right to keep a copy of it beyond what could be termed a reasonable length of time for a time shift recording to be viewed.

The answer above is framed from the point of view of legality. In very basic terms the act of recording a TV programme for viewing later is, by the letter of the Law, an illegal act. However, it would clearly be impractical to ban all PVR overnight, so the interpretation of the law allows a little wiggle room. The Law turns a blind eye to act of Copyright Infringement where the programme is intended for viewing at a more convenient time.

In a practical sense though it is unrealistic to attempt to bring prosecutions of everyone who holds an archived copy of something they recorded from TV. In fact there are well documented cases of programmes thought to be lost because the original master tapes were wiped or destroyed" being recovered from an old home recordings. Although what the home recordist had done was illegal, the decision was made not to prosecute. It doesn't change the standing Law. It was still broken. But no action was taken.

If you want some simile to make this easier to digest then think about motorway driving.

The Law of the Land is 70MPH. The coppers turn a blind eye to 80'ish provided you're not driving like a knob. Besides, if they arrested everyone going over 70 then the courts would be swamped.

So, are we crystal clear now? There's the Letter of the Law. There's the interpretation of the Law. Then there's the practical application of the Law.

Yet another comprehensive reply. Not bad for an ogre, eh?

 

[miker1]

@lucid.

Still no apology then?

Do you think that because you were very helpful in one thread that it gives you the right to be rude and or abusive in another?

It would be a reasonable assumption that as I have been a member for over 10 years, that I would unlikely be a - in your words - "a big fat hairy troll or someone looking to profiteer from a bit of piracy and who is abusing the good nature of the folks who are here willing to offer help to those who come with genuine intentions"
Surely that would have been apparent years ago? Hence the comment.

You decided to ignore my comment "Fine.
So its stuff you own, otherwise its piracy.
Fairy Snuff."
but to make something major out of;"As I have never been a music or film buff [or TV as far as that goes] I wont have much! :lol:"

So, in your world, only racing drivers can have very fast cars? Only top, international, gamers can have very high spec computers??

Ergo, only audiophiles or film buffs can have HTPC streaming systems in their houses. Thankfully for most people that is tosh.

I want it because its there; like most things that people want [not NEED].

I SPECIFICALLY put in "Sorry for not being more specific. I dont want to know HOW just whether its right or wrong." After I saw RANDAL's "I presume the op is talking about newsgroup based automation, and is after an NZB site with which to use as a search provider... "
as I didn't want people to think I was breaking forum rules! [Sadly I had to check what an NZB was....]

But, hey, lets not those sort of things get in the way of a good bit of libellous accusations................


People ask ignorant questions - that's why they are questioning; to get understanding.

I havnt looked yet, but I don't even know what I have to do to get my stuff ONTO a system yet.

First I wanted to find out WHAT I am allowed to do.

Then comes how to do it both hardware AND software.

 

[lucid]

Well miker1, you're rambling and not making much sense. I think you're also skim reading replies. I think this will be my last reply to you because I really have better things to do and I believe that you should now have all the answers about legality that your opening post set out to establish.

Look at your thread count, and now look at mine. I spend most of my time here help others. Go have a read of the threads where I contribute. Look at the OPs questions. By and large clearly written, and further info provided if they sense that their message isn't getting across.

Now look at this thread. Did I help you? Yes Did I help you on more than one occasion? Yes Did I provide the most comprehensive of replies up to those points in the thread? Once again, Yes. Was I courteous and patient despite others concerns over your motives? Yes. Have I continued to provide you with useful information up to this point? Yet again, the answer is Yes.

Did you sour the milk in post #18 after which several of us took a collective "What the hell???" Yes

With regard to your "Fairy snuff" comment, this reads as you confirming your understanding. Do you really believe that needs a specific reply? God, that would make forum conversations tedious.

I have no idea what point you're trying to make with racing cars and gamers. It might make some sense in your head, but from my side of the screen it reads as just waffling.

With regard to your

"I dont want to know HOW just whether its right or wrong."

comment; By my count you'd had seven (7) replies all with opinions stating that ripping and or downloading is illegal. I know you struggle with retention, but just how many times did it need saying?

You say that people ask ignorant questions. That's true. I and my fellow forum members are happy to share information. We give up our time free for the collective good. All we ask is a little courtesy and consideration. Be clear, be concise, and provide some background so we can better understand your request and respond in an appropriate way to the context of your situation. The very first response your got was "Narrow it down a bit". You posted a few replies after that really didn't add much of anything useful. In fact they added more confusion and suspicion. Doesn't that tell you something?

I don't think there's much more to say on this. You've clearly got some sort of conversation going on in your head but it's not making it across well on the forum page. For me this thread has run it's course.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

guy's just forget it.

the setup's are illegal, even if you bought the content legally, is what i can gather from the above.

which basically means an even bigger smile on my face knowing pirating was the right way to go. saved myself thousands in the process too.

 

[Maccy]

Someone comes along and asks a genuine question, regardless of interests, and people attack him? Pathetic, and this is supposed to be one of the better sections...

 

[lucid]

@ Maccy,
With respect, I notice that you haven't offered miker1 any advice. Your only comment so far is to sit on the side throwing stones. If you haven't been involved prior to this point then perhaps you should just keep your nose out. Thank you.

 

[Maccy]

Have it your way then.

 

[joebingo]

Im not entirely sure this is possible

(I havent yet come across software that allows you to keep the encryption while ripping / allows you to read/install decryption on the htpc)

The other thing to consider is licensing and cost of it. Is anyone (from a home perspective) likely to licence two pcs (the ripper and the htpc) when only one is necessary? I would suggest this is unlikely

Speak for yourself , I have a copy of windows on my PC desktop and on my macbook, I just don't like messing around with using illegal operating systems. They are quite important for computers and I use my PCs for work so need them to be absolutely reliable (and spotless).

Films/TV: Online streaming services (netflix4od etc), DVD and Blu Ray
Music: CD, Vinyl, legal download, spotify.

I did download a lot of music when I was younger (I was 16 and the internet was still free haha) but I'm working through that library and buying up what I liked.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

Speak for yourself , I have a copy of windows on my PC desktop and on my macbook, I just don't like messing around with using illegal operating systems. They are quite important for computers and I use my PCs for work so need them to be absolutely reliable (and spotless).

Films/TV: Online streaming services (netflix4od etc), DVD and Blu Ray
Music: CD, Vinyl, legal download, spotify.

I did download a lot of music when I was younger (I was 16 and the internet was still free haha) but I'm working through that library and buying up what I liked.

illegal OS?

the pirated OS's are exactly the same as a licensed OS, nothing is different, so I do not know why reliability would be an issue, because both are the exact same thing.

but i have a legal copy of Vista Retail and Windows 7 Retail, which you can legally use on one PC at a time, or illegally on as many as you want, with no issues at all.

basically i think a lot of people tend to buy 1 legal retail copy and then put it on all their pc's as well as friends and family's pc's, with no issues. think i have installed my windows 7 retail disc on at least 10 pc's/laptops to date.