Poundland Girl Wins Forced Labour Ruling

[GAC]

Because they are not employing you. You are not their employee to receive any wage at all. If you don't like to be part of the program, you are absolutely free to go to the highest bidder for you labour. Nobody is keeping you or forcing you to participate in any part of this in exchange for further advancements of taxpayer's pocket money.

ah yes the fabled tax payers money argument, iv worked since i was 16 years old for most of my adult life. so why should i provide FREE labor to private companies for less than the min wage. i only get basic jsa as i live at home with the parents so where does that leave me for now ? i get £71 a week, if i got stuck in a 30 hour a week workfare program id be on £2.36 an hour.

forced in to a less than min wage job because im a drain on the taxpayers coffers even though iv paid in so going on 20 years ??

i really do wonder what world some people on here live in with their views on the jobless and how easy it is for many to walk in to work.

500k jobs and 2.5 million unemployed, even if everyone got a job there's simply not enough jobs to go around, so then what ? carry on brow beating people till they end up in jobs that don't even exist.

 

[deanolfc]

Let's just point the finger at our jobless/disabled people and claim there the problem but not the governments Overseas Billions they give away. £8.813billion in 2012/13 Rising to £12.162billion in 2014/15. All the best.

 

[Macro]

Thats exactly what happens when you are born without access to natural resources or certain skills employers want.You are forced into 1 and 2 and made to go to poundland by the benefits office.But wait you are not a slave because you have the freedom to refuse to go to poundland and feed and house yourself! And how can you be a slave when they are not cracking whips right? Employment falls right under a civil relationship whereby one person has absolute power over another and controls his life.

Face it you are a slave you are just too dumb to realise it.

Rarely on this forum have I heard anything quite so ridiculous and seen such lack of grasp of the real world. In no way does employment mean one person has absolute power over, and controls the life of another person. You either have the means to provide for all your needs directly, or you do something that others value that you then in turn exchange for things you need, wither directly (i'll fix your fence in exchange for bread and eggs) or a proxy (money, which I will then exchange for the things I need with someone else). The days of single family direct self sufficiency went hundreds if not thousands of years ago, it's just not sustainable with the world population today.

If you seriously think being asked to work in a supermarket in exchange for for the benefits you are claiming until you are in a position to find alternative means of providing for yourself or your family is in any remote way "slavery" you may want to consider introducing yourself to reality.

If anything it's the antithesis of slavery, no one owns you or controls you against your will, you are perfectly at liberty to opt out of benefits, jobs, society and go starve in a corner, something a slave is not at liberty to do. You are offered an incentive in exchange for your skills or labour. It's entirely your choice if you want to take it or not, no one is forcing you, just the same a no one was forcing a hunter gather 3000 years ago to get off his **** and go kill a deer, other than if he didn't do it he would starve.

You are however very amusing

 

[Macro]

Let's just point the finger at our jobless/disabled people and claim there the problem but not the governments Overseas Billions they give away. £8.813billion in 2012/13 Rising to £12.162billion in 2014/15. All the best.

Have you investigated what the UK gets back in terms of preferential access, deals and revenue?

 

[Rofflay]

First of all, can I ask you to stop editing your posts 20 times. Just do multiple posts if you forgot something the first time around. It's really hard to discuss anything when you keep changing things.

Secondly. This whole "forced into employment" and "natural resources" ranting, I'm sorry to say, is just deranged. You live, you work. In every system. It's not capitalism, in every system, ever, if you don't work, you don't have money, you don't have independent living. If you haven't figured out that yet, then I suppose we, as a society have failed you. But if you think this makes you a slave, then please use the last available resources this version of capitalism have provided you with and seek some free medical help. The world around you is not going to change any time soon. And it's the best version of it we, as human race, managed to create in the last several thousand years. We are not going to change it just because you feel uncomfortable within its constraints. Stop being primadonna about it and start carrying your own weight.

So going against not having access to food water and shelter unless doing 8 hrs a day 5 days a week in poundland is mental illness then.I guess im just a very sick person.Can i ask then do you think they will give me benefits or will i as a sick person with a delusional version of a world be denied JSA/DLA for being physically fit?



Oh the irony!

 

[Macro]

ah yes the fabled tax payers money argument, iv worked since i was 16 years old for most of my adult life. so why should i provide FREE labor to private companies for less than the min wage. i only get basic jsa as i live at home with the parents so where does that leave me for now ? i get £71 a week, if i got stuck in a 30 hour a week workfare program id be on £2.36 an hour.

forced in to a less than min wage job because im a drain on the taxpayers coffers even though iv paid in so going on 20 years ??

i really do wonder what world some people on here live in with their views on the jobless and how easy it is for many to walk in to work.

500k jobs and 2.5 million unemployed, even if everyone got a job there's simply not enough jobs to go around, so then what ? carry on brow beating people till they end up in jobs that don't even exist.

It's absolutely a requirement of a civilised society to have a safety net for people who hit hard times through no fault of their own. Someone who has worked hard for years and ends up redundant should be supported and encouraged whilst they get back on their feet.

Too often though benefits become a life style choice and an option rather than working as opposed to something to keep you ticking over until there is an alternative. The old "why should I work a 40 hour week for only £50 more than I could get on the dole watching TV" is understandable I guess if the person takes no pride in being self sufficient. It's still a huge problem with the system however.

The sad thing is hard working folks with pride in their work ethic who have hit hard times and are doing all they can to get back to being able to provide for themselves and their family get tarnished by others (often generations of a family and friends) who have no intention of doing anything other than playing the system.

 

[estebanrey]

I knew you simply cannot grasp it estebanrey.Does my brain work differently to right wing nutters or are you just devoid of any humanity?

Sir you sound like a complete scumbag to be honest and im going to bitch slap you on this forum for it.

Firstly, I'm not a "right winger" as you say. As Chris Rock once said, I'm left on some thing and right on others.

Also calling anyone that disagrees with a "nutter" or a "scumbag" is hardly the sign of an intelligent debater. When you have to resort to ad-hominem attacks, it's time to step back from the keyboard and re-assess your argument.

estebanrey logic is this: Unless someone is put in chains and kidnapped they are not a slave.

Um no, my logic is using the word 'slavery' to describe the workfare scheme is exaggerating and makes a mockery of the word given it's historical context.

You talk about wanting to 'bitch slap' people. Well I dare say that would happen to the workfare complainant who ever got to met a sweatshop worker in Asia and answered his "I'm a slave" with "me too".

Regarding the laughable bit about air conditioning and the general conditions the slaves worked in thats down to the gap in morals and technology from your 1900's slaves in America to modern day.

And yet you keep harping back to by-gone age of owning land and harvesting your own crops. It's not me that is living in the wrong century buddy.

Disregard the treatment and conditions based on the advances we have made and put the core issues into context please.

OK then, some other fundamental differences. Are workfare workers legally owned by the company they are sent to work for? No, unlike slaves. Can the organisation in question sell the workfare worker to another company? No, unlike slaves. Have workfare workers been kidnapped and deprived from seeing their families ever again? No, unlike slaves. Are the companies that employ workfare workers allowed to beat them? No, unlike slaves....shall I go on?

And black african slaves do not simply get to monopolise the word slavery.

I never said they did, slavery has affected all races and creeds throughout history and I cited examples in my last post of modern slavery that still exists today.

Infact here is an explanation of slavery.

slav·er·y (slv-r, slvr)
n. pl. slav·er·ies
1. The state of one bound in servitude as the property of a slaveholder or household.
2.
a. The practice of owning slaves.
b. A mode of production in which slaves constitute the principal work force.
3. The condition of being subject or addicted to a specified influence.
4. A condition of hard work and subjection: wage slavery.
slavery [ˈsleɪvərɪ]
n
1. (Law) the state or condition of being a slave; a civil relationship whereby one person has absolute power over another and controls his life, liberty, and fortune
2. the subjection of a person to another person, esp in being forced into work
3. the condition of being subject to some influence or habit


Thats exactly what happens when you are born without access to natural resources or certain skills employers want.

Unless you are citing the primary definitions of a word then there's no point posting dictionary entries as they give all manner of metaphorical uses that don't equate to what the word means literally.

For example, if you look up the definition of the word 'cat' on the same dictionary site you used, one definition is...

b. A player or devotee of jazz music.

But that doesn't mean someone calling a lover of jazz believes they are actually a Felis Catus.

You are forced into 1 and 2 and made to go to poundland by the benefits office.But wait you are not a slave because you have the freedom to refuse to go to poundland and feed and house yourself! And how can you be a slave when they are not cracking whips right? Employment falls right under a civil relationship whereby one person has absolute power over another and controls his life.

Face it you are a slave you are just too dumb to realise it.

Oh I get it, because I have a job and don't believe I should be given free stuff just from virtue of being born then I'm a sheeple wage slave. Fine, so be it but I'd place a wager I'm a darn cite more happy in my life than you clearly aren't.

 

[v0n]

So going against not having access to food water and shelter unless doing 8 hrs a day 5 days a week in poundland is mental illness then

Not necessarily poundland, but YES! Unless you live off someone else, if you do not work, you do not earn. If you do not earn, you do not have food and shelter. Water you do have, because in UK water is considered basic human need and cannot be disconnected. Why are you only discovering it now? How old are you?

 

[Xordium]

After reading Rofflay's posts across numerous threads I am pretty sure even Atos would record him as quite the fruitloop.

 

[Rofflay]

If anything it's the antithesis of slavery, no one owns you or controls you against your will, you are perfectly at liberty to opt out of benefits, jobs, society and go starve in a corner

Quite the choice isnt it? I dont know how you can type all that info and then type what i just quoted.It pretty much summs up my arguement on why benefits and thier cuts are wrong and why employers do have full control.If someone else has complete control over the food chain and money chain how else do you get around the fact they do control you.Maybe not directly in a 1:1 situation but as a group employers own everyone.

I dont mind being called a fruitloop though.Lots of people have been discounted and called fruitloops and history has gone on to prove them right.All im trying to say is if each person has to rely on someone else to actually be a human then its slavery.


Look up the Human rights charter im pretty sure it would state being a human and having a right would mean the ability to feed yourself,live a happy life and have somewhere to live.


Without benefits how many of those would a person without a job actually have? They have tap water as u pointed out but people cannot survive on water alone.Food costs money as does land and planning permission means people cannot simply run about building houses.

 

[v0n]

Look up the Human rights charter im pretty sure it would state being a human and having a right would mean the ability to feed yourself,live a happy life and have somewhere to live.

In addition to paraphrasing wildly, you seem to be confused about meanings of words. Right, is just that. You have a right to rise off your four letters, go and get these things for yourself. It does not mean the society/nation has an obligation to provide those things for you.

 

[Rofflay]

In addition to paraphrasing wildly, you seem to be confused about meanings of words. Right, is just that. You have a right to rise off your four letters, go and get these things for yourself. It does not mean the society/nation has an obligation to provide those things for you.

You talk about things, i presume by things you mean computers,phones,television and not the basics like food water and shelter? When society takes up all the above and puts it under private ownership then how do you rise off your four letters and go and take that when the landowners and corporations have the right of law?

You seem confused why do you not try it? And when someone rings the cops and you get taken up for theft or trespassing you might realise that nothing is free and everything is already taken.Its the sole reason why people take money out of your tax for benefits.They clearly see that not to do so would be wrong and as such benefits exist to offset the private ownership of resources.Without them there is nothing, no shelter no food or housing unless willing to go to poundland for an unfair wage.

 

[CREATIVE!11]

Funny thing is the work programme, ok force people to work in voluntary shops like YMCA that is one thing at least nobody is really profiting etc but working for somewhere like Argos where they are USING CLAIMANTS to cut their costs is goddamned absurd and disgusting.

....

 

[Rofflay]

Its not about making a quick buck.The people doing this are in Goverment not Argos and most of the cabinet are millionaires so they do not need any money.Eton boys club agenda on the poor? That gets my vote!

Why else would the Tories be so desperate to cut deals on Europe and gay rights? They are desperate to keep cutting benefits and sell of the NHS they will do pretty much anything to get re elected.


I imagine the poor and thier numbers scare IDS and his Eton chums.He probably wants to root out as many non conforming "dregs" as he can.

 

[v0n]

You talk about things, i presume by things you mean computers,phones,television and not the basics like food water and shelter? When society takes up all the above and puts it under private ownership then how do you rise off your four letters and go and take that when

You seem confused why do you not try it? And when someone rings the cops and you get taken up for theft or trespassing you might realise that nothing is free and everything is already taken.Its the sole reason why people take money out of your tax for benefits.They clearly see that not to do so would be wrong and as such benefits exist to offset the private ownership of resources.Without them there is nothing, no shelter no food or housing unless willing to go to poundland for an unfair wage.

No. I'm talking about food and shelter. You have a right to stop barking at the moon, get up and secure your food and your shelter. Just like the rest of us. Private ownership makes sure that land or shelter is yours once you earn it, cops and law make sure nobody takes it away from you afterward. Corporations, bigger and smaller, which you are welcome to create as well, provide you with opportunity to acquire the food and goods you cannot manufacture, grow or gather yourself. All you need to do is earn it. Through work. Without work, there is nothing. No shelter. No food. No housing. Most of us learn those basic truths of life by the age of 6.

To protect the weakest of us we created benefits system. To help those in society that permanently or temporarily cannot fend for themselves. Often, as well, to simply not punish next generation for the "sins" or inabilities of their parents. As a step up, to level up starting point. It is not there because of your interpretation of rights charter. It is not there because young generation prefers to stay at home for few hundred quid less a month and let several million foreigners prep their Subways, McDonalds and fill up their Tesco shelves. It's not there to excuse your misguided view of the world. It's not there to be abused.

 

[atpbx]

No. I'm talking about food and shelter. You have a right to stop barking at the moon, get up and secure your food and your shelter. Just like the rest of us. Private ownership makes sure that land or shelter is yours once you earn it, cops and law make sure nobody takes it away from you afterward. Corporations, bigger and smaller, which you are welcome to create as well, provide you with opportunity to acquire the food and goods you cannot manufacture, grow or gather yourself. All you need to do is earn it. Through work. Without work, there is nothing. No shelter. No food. No housing. Most of us learn those basic truths of life by the age of 6.

To protect the weakest of us we created benefits system. To help those in society that permanently or temporarily cannot fend for themselves. Often, as well, to simply not punish next generation for the "sins" or inabilities of their parents. As a step up, to level up starting point. It is not there because of your interpretation of rights charter. It is not there because young generation prefers to stay at home for few hundred quid less a month and let several million foreigners prep their Subways, McDonalds and fill up their Tesco shelves. It's not there to excuse your misguided view of the world. It's not there to be abused.

I dont think he understands that even if he got his little piece of land that he so desperately craves, he would be working a lot harder to survive than even the most dedicated wage slave.

Which is precisely the reason nobody does it anymore.

 

[Scrutinize]

#cba edit

 

[GAC]

It's absolutely a requirement of a civilised society to have a safety net for people who hit hard times through no fault of their own. Someone who has worked hard for years and ends up redundant should be supported and encouraged whilst they get back on their feet.

Too often though benefits become a life style choice and an option rather than working as opposed to something to keep you ticking over until there is an alternative. The old "why should I work a 40 hour week for only £50 more than I could get on the dole watching TV" is understandable I guess if the person takes no pride in being self sufficient. It's still a huge problem with the system however.

The sad thing is hard working folks with pride in their work ethic who have hit hard times and are doing all they can to get back to being able to provide for themselves and their family get tarnished by others (often generations of a family and friends) who have no intention of doing anything other than playing the system.

the saddest thing is though a lot of people like to tar everyone with the same brush as well as ignoring anyone who trys to put up a straight honest argument.

as after all if your out of work its because your lazy, nothing else. the news says so.

iv just finished a sia course (security) and out of the 24 of us on the course, id say 2 wont be getting work in the security industry once we all get our licences back due to them not wanting to work. now i know you cant take that as a true cross section of society out of work but it throws some of the ideas about how everyone out of work is a lazy ****less layabout. hell we had one women on the course who was traveling 2 and a half hours a day to get there setting off at 6am due to lack of any training opportunities where she lived.

but as i said above, 500k jobs and 2.5 million unemployed beggars the question at what point will brow beating and abusing people about their situation make another 2 million jobs magically appear ? something a few in here keep ignoring and just drone on that if you don't go on the workfare scheme then you'l never get a job. as if you cant show willing who will employ you, yeah if there's no jobs who will employ you anyways ?

 

[Frightful Boar]

Also calling anyone that disagrees with a "nutter" or a "scumbag" is hardly the sign of an intelligent debater. When you have to resort to ad-hominem attacks, it's time to step back from the keyboard and re-assess your argument.

I've noticed that this is common practice amongst the hysterical left. Got no real argument beyond "it's not fair, boohoo" so they'll start insulting you and using the roll-eyes smiley.

I can't imagine why they would want to convert anyone to their opinion. If everyone felt this way, nobody would have a job and it would be a disaster. On the other hand, if everybody worked their absolute backsides off to better themselves, the world would be a much better place.

So, my advice to left whingers - keep it to yourself and you'll have more chance of maintaining your selfish lifestyle.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

I've noticed that this is common practice amongst the hysterical left. Got no real argument beyond "it's not fair, boohoo" so they'll start insulting you and using the roll-eyes smiley.

Funnily enough, I've noticed the same thing happening from the hysterical right. If you talk about liberty, suddenly you're a left wing nutter.


Rofflay, I think we'd all appreciate if you could put a space after the full stop in your sentences.