13/63 plate

[Richie]

But if you take a car earlier you are likely to get a better deal up front! I know as I've done it more than once!

That wasn't the point I making. Irrespective of how good a deal you got to begin with, the 63 plate car will be worth more than the 13 plate car when trading it in even if its separated by 1 day (31st Aug to the 1st Sept) with all other things being equal (mileage, condition and spec).

Is it silly? Probably, but the car trade is still archaic in some of its practices.

I was talking resale value. If you want to bring in what the car cost initially then that's a whole different ball game.

 

[Housey]

That wasn't the point I making. Irrespective of how good a deal you got to begin with, the 63 plate car will be worth more than the 13 plate car when trading it in even if its separated by 1 day (31st Aug to the 1st Sept) with all other things being equal (mileage, condition and spec).

Is it silly? Probably, but the car trade is still archaic in some of its practices.

I was talking resale value. If you want to bring in what the car cost initially then that's a whole different ball game.

I dont agree, it depends on the car.

 

[[TW]Fox]

I rarely disagree with Housey.

Today, I disagree with Housey.

A 31st August 2011 car is worth less than a 1st September 2011 car.
A 25th July 2011 car is worth the same as a 31st August 2011 car.

 

[Housey]

I rarely disagree with Housey.

Today, I disagree with Housey.

A 31st August 2011 car is worth less than a 1st September 2011 car.
A 25th July 2011 car is worth the same as a 31st August 2011 car.

You're allowed to disagree, I have phoned my mum and told her but she says it's OK and mums are ALWAYS right.

I am looking at the sort of cars I have typically buy. The registration plate on my GT3 had no impact on its value. I sold at the top of the scale price wise as it was a good one, the owner looked at younger cheaper cars, he bought mine. The trade offered book based on not seeing it, the offered different after seeing it. As I said, it depends on the car.

Now to another example. I took a Mk5 Golf GTi day 1, so 2 weeks before the new plate. The car was therefore one of about 10 on the road on that plate, everyone waited for the new plate, I have never been bothered and I also got £500 of a car with a waiting list as I took it sooner and gave them a bonus. When I sold it to the garage I clearly recall him using the plate ahead, but then he had no numbers for cars on my plate, it was a model year. Again, depends on the car.

I have, as you might expect, LOADS of friends in the trade, from sales people through to Chairman of the big franchises, most will tell you that it's not really that important, as people in the know will be more interested in model years, updates etc. Sure, Joe **** walking in off the street will crave a new plate, but I personally would not give a flying **** if I wanted a car now but was being told wait 3 weeks for the new plate as really it's not something that is going to effect me come resale as I will do a better deal at the front end.

It is all very well being black and white on these things, but reality is a deal is a deal, the book is what is used to form the deal form the car salesmans perspective, surely people dont let them control the deal...

 

[Housey]

Not that many out there on this plate, bar demo cars and pre-regs. This was bought as it rolled of the trailer, I **** you not! I got a call saying "we have one, we didnt expect it, it's yours if you want it". Many of the demo cars were this blue with the bigger wheels, both options we wanted so hand was snapped off and £500 discount taken

 

[Russinating]

Dealer emailed back today and is basically offering:

- Free paint and interior protect (as predicted)
- Free Kia-3 Year (3 years free servicing, normally £399)
- Car mats (whoop?!)

As people have said here there's no discount for BACS, it hasn't been used as a demo yet and he said their targets are quarterly so he doesn't care if we get a 63 or 13. All-in-all the free servicing for 3 years is the only decent bit and seems worth it.

Going to call tomorrow and put the deposit down on it to pick up on 1st September .

 

[Housey]

So he has given you £100 discount then.

 

[Russinating]

You're very good at masquerading advice/criticism with blanket statements and unfinished posts aren't you?

I run a business and I hate it when people ask for discounts or try to haggle - the price is the price - so I'm happy with anything, even small. And yes, I'm aware the 1st year's service is normally unnecessary but I'm not sure where you're getting £50 services for the following two years from. Please enlighten me if you actually want to be helpful and not just condescending.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Dealer emailed back today and is basically offering:

- Free paint and interior protect (as predicted)
- Free Kia-3 Year (3 years free servicing, normally £399)
- Car mats (whoop?!)

As people have said here there's no discount for BACS, it hasn't been used as a demo yet and he said their targets are quarterly so he doesn't care if we get a 63 or 13. All-in-all the free servicing for 3 years is the only decent bit and seems worth it.

Going to call tomorrow and put the deposit down on it to pick up on 1st September .

So all you've managed to get is £399 off, which isn't really even £399 off as it has a cost to the dealer of somewhat less. This seems like a particularly poor deal - why are you so happy to proceed?

You've nothing to lose by calling and telling him you are simply not interested in that price, and thank him for his time.

He'll call back. And if he doesn't you've hardly lost deal of the decade and could easily pop back in next month and order it.

You are about to pay pretty much list price for a brand new Kia. Seriously, this is very daft. I'm not trying to convince you not to buy a Kia, its obviously what you want, but come on, buy smart.

http://www.broadspeed.com/new_cars/Kia/Sportage

£2000 off, straight off the bat.

I run a business and I hate it when people ask for discounts or try to haggle - the price is the price - so I'm happy with anything, even small

This is remarkably un-astute for somebody who runs a business. This is simply NOT how large value items are purchased. I doubt your business sells £20,000 products if thats how you think pricing works

 

[Russinating]

So all you've managed to get is £399 off. This seems like a particularly poor deal - why are you so happy to proceed?

You've nothing to lose by calling and telling him you are simply not interested in that price, and thank him for his time.

He'll call back. And if he doesn't you've hardly lost deal of the decade and could easily pop back in next month and order it.

You are about to pay pretty much list price for a brand new Kia. Seriously, this is very daft. I'm not trying to convince you not to buy a Kia, its obviously what you want, but come on, buy smart.

The lead time is 6-8 weeks for the model we want, this one came in on its own to another of their dealerships. I need to have a car by 7th September so whilst I'm happy to play hardball if we miss this one it'll cost me over £300 in hire car costs if I don't have a car by that date.

This car was ordered as a demo model for another dealership so I don't actually think they'll care if we say no - they've got to drive it from Gloucester to Bristol (not far but still a pain) and then that garage will be without a demo model for 6 weeks.

And like I said, we're happy to pay £1-2,000 for a brand new Kia as opposed to a nearly new. If you can find one for less than that within a convenient distance from Bristol that's not ex-display/demo etc then I'm all ears!

 

[Russinating]

This is remarkably un-astute for somebody who runs a business. This is simply NOT how large value items are purchased. I doubt your business sells £20,000 products if thats how you think pricing works

Not all the time no, but in terms of our ticket price vs industry average we're way above that, and yes some of our larger products are nearer £20,000. And this is a service industry so even more reason to discount (or so people assume).

 

[[TW]Fox]

The lead time is 6-8 weeks for the model we want, this one came in on its own to another of their dealerships. I need to have a car by 7th September so whilst I'm happy to play hardball if we miss this one it'll cost me over £300 in hire car costs if I don't have a car by that date.

So it's a stock car? I would be AMAZED if they were not under pressure to register it prior to September 1st. Your email asking about free paint protection has probably meant that they think you'll buy anyway even if they say they can't discount further (and it seems they are right on this!).

Also, is the service pack really worth it? I don't know what the schedule is on the Kia but most cars are 2 years or 15-20k miles. So it really buys you what, a SINGLE service. It's not worth £399.

Effectively he has offered you nil discount and a free service. He is presumably therefore a pretty good salesman and has already worked out you are desperate to buy the car irrespective of the deal - so his offer to you reflects that expectation.

How much is it?

This car was ordered as a demo model for another dealership so I don't actually think they'll care if we say no - they've got to drive it from Gloucester to Bristol (not far but still a pain) and then that garage will be without a demo model for 6 weeks.

This is confusing. If its a demo car why isn't it already registered? Therefore its a used car not a new car?

 

[[TW]Fox]

Not all the time no, but in terms of our ticket price vs industry average we're way above that, and yes some of our larger products are nearer £20,000. And this is a service industry so even more reason to discount (or so people assume).

So you are in a service industry offering services at near £20,000 and every single customer simply pays your leaflet price without any sort of negotiation whatsoever?

Staggering.

 

[Housey]

You're very good at masquerading advice/criticism with blanket statements and unfinished posts aren't you?

I run a business and I hate it when people ask for discounts or try to haggle - the price is the price - so I'm happy with anything, even small. And yes, I'm aware the 1st year's service is normally unnecessary but I'm not sure where you're getting £50 services for the following two years from. Please enlighten me if you actually want to be helpful and not just condescending.

I wasn't been condescending, well that was not my intention. I was trying to take the lines the sales person had given you to get to the real value of the deal. Why do you hate when people ask for discounts? I too have run businesses, I expect people to seek to negotiate and I build that into any commercial deal I do, as has your dealer. As I said above, if you are happy with your deal what does it matter.

You have bought a new Kia, you are not going to get a good cash efficient car purely on the basis you have bought a new Kia. I would have sought all you have and some cash off the car too, not due to how I funded it, which as had been said was not going to get you anywhere.

I would not have bought a new Kia put it simply, there are better cars that will cost you less as an overall purchase I believe, but to be fair I am not up to speed on their model ranges to offer anything more than high level advice.

 

[Participant]

Russinating, have you tried / considered Drive-the-Deal or equivalent? Very good option for those of us that aren't great at haggling or simply aren't that comfortable doing it.

 

[Russinating]

Jeez, I'd like to see your guys subscription lists

So you are in a service industry offering services at near £20,000 and every single customer simply pays your leaflet price without any sort of negotiation whatsoever?

Staggering.

Correct. Our price is set for a reason, not "that's roughly what it is and we expect some clients to get our services for less depending on how much they pester us". What value is there to a price if that's not the price?

Anyway this is OT. That's our business, this is a car. We don't sell cars, but I was simply explaining why I don't always expect to get a discount.

Also that company you linked to is in London as far as I can see (unless they source more local dealers)?

I wasn't been condescending, well that was not my intention. I was trying to take the lines the sales person had given you to get to the real value of the deal. Why do you hate when people ask for discounts? I too have run businesses, I expect people to seek to negotiate and I build that into any commercial deal I do, as has your dealer. As I said above, if you are happy with your deal what does it matter.

You have bought a new Kia, you are not going to get a good cash efficient car purely on the basis you have bought a new Kia. I would have sought all you have and some cash off the car too, not due to how I funded it, which as had been said was not going to get you anywhere.

I would not have bought a new Kia put it simply, there are better cars that will cost you less as an overall purchase I believe, but to be fair I am not up to speed on their model ranges to offer anything more than high level advice.

What would you folks do then? I value your advice which is why I'm asking for more detail! Obviously the dealer knows our position because we've spoken to him, but if we can't get a car by 7th September (ie if we order a brand new one) then it'll cost me at least £300 and a lot of faff.

Edit: Sorry, to catch up, we're looking at the Sportage 2 1.7 CRDi (http://www.kia.co.uk/new-cars/range/suvs-4x4-cars/new-sportage/pricing/price-option.aspx) so it's £20,795 OTR.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Correct. Our price is set for a reason, not "that's roughly what it is and we expect some clients to get our services for less depending on how much they pester us". What value is there to a price if that's not the price?

Anyway this is OT. That's our business, this is a car. We don't sell cars, but I was simply explaining why I don't always expect to get a discount.

Then this attitude is going to cost you money - as simple as that really. I suspect it also costs you customers but I'd imagine you probably don't see it that way. I guarantee there will be customers who, on receipt of a small discount, would have put profitable business your way.

Also that company you linked to is in London as far as I can see (unless they source more local dealers)?

It explains the situation on the website - they are a broker. They put you in touch with a dealership. You can then visit this dealership and collect the car, or you can arrange delivery to your house. You can do it all without leaving the house if you want. They simply have an office in London!

What would you folks do then?

I might be too late for this deal now as you've made your intent fairly obvious to the dealer so some of this is a bit captain hindsight but I'd not have sent that email asking about paint protection for a start. I'd have made it clear tot he dealer that I was in the market for a Sportage - perhaps his - but only if the price was right. He would then have had to work for your business.

Obviously the dealer knows our position because we've spoken to him

Why did you show the dealer your hand?

Buying something of this magnitude is a game for both sides - if you dont treat it as such you will potentially pay thousands more for the car than you might need to.

but if we can't get a car by 7th September (ie if we order a brand new one) then it'll cost me at least £300 and a lot of faff.

£300 seems somewhat trivial against the backdrop of the sort of savings you could make with the right deal.

What exactly is the deal offered here? Is this a brand new car? To what specification and what price?

Edit: Sorry, to catch up, we're looking at the Sportage 2 1.7 CRDi (http://www.kia.co.uk/new-cars/range/...ce-option.aspx) so it's £20,795 OTR.

Ok - so you are taking an in-stock car intended for use as a demo, but paying the LIST price of a factory order for it? Come on - this is madness. You can do better. Even renting something and ordering a new one would probably cost you less.

I'd be tempted to play the dealer off with the broadspeed price. Get a quote for a new factory order through Broadspeed. Then when you next speak to the dealer, explain that you've found a new factory order for £18900 - nearly £2000 less than his offer. Tell him that on that basis you are simply not interested in his car at his price.

Then wait.

Also, consider calling other Kia dealers. You are buying a brand new car. You don't need to visit the dealer physically and most will happily deliver it to your door. It doesnt matter where the dealer is really. Tell them you want a Sportage 2. Tell them you want to pay about £19k for a new one and will take a stock-car pre 1st September if it helps the deal (DONT mention your 7th September constraint!!). Tell them you'd take a delivery mileage pre-reg for a sensible discount. See what you get.

Also, try not to sound like you are so desperate to buy it. Thats a dealers best case scenario. Once the dealer works out that you really want the car and would probably pay list to get it, then pay list is exactly what you'll do.

Put a bit of work in and you can save thousands of pounds on this car.

 

[Russinating]

Russinating, have you tried / considered Drive-the-Deal or equivalent? Very good option for those of us that aren't great at haggling or simply aren't that comfortable doing it.

Had to Google because they don't list Kia on the homepage but it says it can save £1,900 (18,836.54 total). How do they work/where do the cars come from/etc? Could I use their quote as leverage with our dealer or is that like quoting Amazon prices to a bookshop?

 

[Housey]

If you are set on the Kia you need to speak with other Kia dealers and see what deals they have that are more compelling. Don't tell them the deal you have, tell them what you need and by when and what will work for you and what won't. If you need a car by a date tell them the date and also tell them that you intend to fund the purchase 100% yourself and there is no trade in, so you can move quickly (same day) for the right deal. If you prefer unregistered to registered tell them, they might have unregistered stock cars so be flexible on spec, but tell them what it is you must have spec wise.

A good sales person will try to control the deal, a good customer will appreciate the seller needs to make a deal that works for them, but FFS make them work for it. Be prescriptive, tell them what YOU want and if they give you that what they will get, that being a quick cash deal with zero trade in.

 

[Russinating]

What exactly is the deal offered here? Is this a brand new car? To what specification and what price?

Brand new, just ordered to another dealership as a demo car but hasn't been used or driven yet. And it's the Sportage 2 1.7 CRDi (linked to above), OTR price is 20,795.