NHS stop-smoking service 'a success'

[[TW]Sponge]

Do you mean some vapers still have the odd ciggie or that people who vape exclusively are still 'smoking'?

If it's the first, the same can be said for any quitting device. In fact it's far more likely someone on patches or gum will return to the "one for old times" mentality than the vaper because the former isn't getting the simulation the e-cig user is.

If it's the latter then you need to go back to GCSE Chemistry class and ask what the difference between vapour and smoke is. You can't 'smoke' something that doesn't produce smoke.

I didn't mean smoke in a literal sense. But the habit of putting something in your mouth, inhaling, then blowing it out again is still the same. I take it you vape? Can you tell me if vapers could easily stop vaping and not worry about it?

Vapers still have the 'habit', therefore not really quitting completely.

 

[altus]

"But the habit of putting something in your mouth, inhaling, then blowing it out again is still the same"
Don`t want to pop your bubble, but people who vape do so to avoid the harm of SMOKE, the fact it feels like smoking makes it work.
Why is that hard to understand?

 

[Deleted member 651465]

Our trust went smoke free in April this year.

It just means now, the staff have to go and stand on the main road to have a ciggie, which looks professional - driving past seeing a line of NHS professionals having a fag!

And as for the patients, as its a psychiatric hospital, the smoking ban for patients lasted about 2 days before they agreed patients can smoke

Been a waste of time, just means that now when staff go for a ciggie, they are away from the ward / premises longer than they need to be, and may not be around in the event of a kickoff.

Makes no odds to me, I don't smoke and never have.

Our trust implement this policy (no smoking on hospital grounds).

In fact, I was at a hospital environment board meeting today when the subject of smoking was on the agenda. Staff have been complaining that they have to leave the site for a cigarette and it was acknowledged that night staff are simply going outside rather than walk off site.

I've never smoked, but it riles me (and I made my opinion known) when smokers quote the "it's our right". My response was "if you can quote the rules you can follow them.. Police the smoking policy or tear it up".

As for patients smoking. It's difficult. How can you make an elderly patient leave the ward/site for a cigarette break if they're acutely ill or require complex care. You can't. Hence the dedicated areas for smoking. Again, what annoys me are the lazy staff or visitors that stand outside the ante natal department (!) smoking with about 5 signs stating its prohibited in the area. I do challenge staff (fun :/) but I'm selective of patients or visitors. Example, seeing an older gentleman in a wheelchair outside orthopeadic.. you can't really say too much.. But a seemingly able bodied visitor.. You have to weigh each case up.

Bring back the smoking shelters, at least it was easier to police

 

[estebanrey]

I didn't mean smoke in a literal sense. But the habit of putting something in your mouth, inhaling, then blowing it out again is still the same.

The people who slam e-cigs for looking like smoking or encouraging the 'culture' of it are no different to those crazy Mumsnet types who think water pistols should be banned because they look like guns and encourage boys to be interested in firearms.

It's not about what it looks like or whether the actions are the same, it's about the harm being caused. With cigarettes there is lots, with e-cigs there is virtually none.

 

[[TW]Sponge]

"But the habit of putting something in your mouth, inhaling, then blowing it out again is still the same"
Don`t want to pop your bubble, but people who vape do so to avoid the harm of SMOKE, the fact it feels like smoking makes it work.
Why is that hard to understand?

'It feels like smoking' is the exact point i'm trying to get across. It's not actually quitting smoking is it, it's just another form. Yes it's much better for you because it doesn't contain the 'smoke', but you are just moving from one addiction to a less harmful addiction.

I'm not saying vaping is a bad thing whatsoever, but it's just for people who can't quite give up the habit, therefore, not actually giving it up.

Will you see somebody who has never smoked a cigarette in their lives vaping? Probably not.

 

[estebanrey]

'It feels like smoking' is the exact point i'm trying to get across. It's not actually quitting smoking is it, it's just another form. Yes it's much better for you because it doesn't contain the 'smoke', but you are just moving from one addiction to a less harmful addiction.

I'm not saying vaping is a bad thing whatsoever, but it's just for people who can't quite give up the habit, therefore, not actually giving it up.

Will you see somebody who has never smoked a cigarette in their lives vaping? Probably not.

But you talk about having a habit as if it's always a bad thing. Should stamp collectors feel guilty for having the habit of collecting stamps?

There is nothing wrong with addiction per se, only when it adversely affects your health or life. Neither of which should be with e-cigs.

As I've stated before, 90% of people in this thread are addicted to caffeine (but don't realise it). But rarely do you hear people complain about how awful it is that most of the population have an addiction to it.

 

[krooton]

Caffeine is consumed extensively, why should a far less harmful (if harmful at all) version of nicotine usage also be ok?

The problem I have with proper smoking is the smell and damage it causes to both users and nearby passives.

 

[MrMoonX]

Exactly. I can run 10 miles on a treadmill despite being a 15-20 a day smoker for the last 8 years. If 30 seconds of passive smoke is really that tough, I'd suggest consulting your GP before you drop dead from respiratory failure. :/

There's a cracking Bill Hicks joke where he told a story about being outside having a cigarette when somebody came up to him and starting coughing at him. His response was "Shoot, it's a good job you don't smoke with that cough! I'm on forty a day and I don't even cough like that."

Treadmill lol, try outside with hills then we will see how your diseased lungs hold up!
The fact is that smoking kills, it's bad for everyone, vaping should be taxed and controlled in the same way as nicotine is a habit forming drug, tax should be increased on tobacco and smokers should have to pay a fee for all related NHS treatmnet

 

[Yas786]

'It feels like smoking' is the exact point i'm trying to get across. It's not actually quitting smoking is it, it's just another form. Yes it's much better for you because it doesn't contain the 'smoke', but you are just moving from one addiction to a less harmful addiction.

I'm not saying vaping is a bad thing whatsoever, but it's just for people who can't quite give up the habit, therefore, not actually giving it up.

Will you see somebody who has never smoked a cigarette in their lives vaping? Probably not.

Indeed for me i actually like smoking but didnt want the harmful stuff so going over to 'vaping' has been successful in that i hardly have a cig nowadays.

My neighbour, a guy in his 70s also vapes and this was a guy who would smoke 40-60 a day easily. But he no longer vapes with nicotine, hes actually just vaping the zero nicotine and hasnt touched a proper cigarette for almost 6 mths now. But asking him why he still vapes even though he vapes no nicotine juice, he said it keeps his hands busy as that is the toughest thing to give up while smoking. He doesnt know if he will ever give up vaping but have to say hes done damn well for a guy that smoked so much to someone who hasnt smoked a cig and just vapes for the hell of it.

 

[altus]

Yes, most vapers are addicted still to nicotine, unless they are on the 0% juice.

"Will you see somebody who has never smoked a cigarette in their lives vaping?" Well nothing surprises me anymore =]

 

[estebanrey]

Yes, most vapers are addicted still to nicotine, unless they are on the 0% juice.

And the problem is?

 

[Yas786]

Yes, most vapers are addicted still to nicotine, unless they are on the 0% juice.

"Will you see somebody who has never smoked a cigarette in their lives vaping?" Well nothing surprises me anymore =]

And the amount of nicotine in an e cig is hardly likely to kill you whereas a cigarette will kill you.

i, for one welcome e cigs...its made my life so much easier and i feel a lot more healthier...no more nasty smokers cough and stinking of cigs.

The govt imho are a bunch of ****ing idiots if they decide to tax e cigs but for them its a revenue stream and they know that the more smokers that give up, the less money they will make.

 

[Castiel]

Unfortunately your personal preferences are irrelevant though.

No they are not..my personal preferences are the entirely relevant to whether I find someone blowing vapour into my face antisocial or not...

I don't like strong smelling fish dishes, piped music or people slurp when eating soup but that doesn't mean I have the right to demand society outcast it from restaurants just because they irritate my senses.

it is not the same..you can decide not to enter a fish restaurant, or one that uses piped music..Eating is inherent to a restaurant environment...vaping is not, so they are not the same thing at all.

Personally I don't care if someone is vaping on the next table to me as long as it isn't interfering with my own meal or my enjoyment of it. I am also not demanding anyone is outcast from society, only that, as with all things, it is conducted in an appropriate manner.

And apologies for jumping on your working if if you regard the passive breathing of vapour as 'no more' harmful than cigarette smoke you need to brush up your science skills.

I have no idea what you are talking about here..are you saying that vapour is as harmful as cigarette smoke? because I have seen no evidence of that, I simply do not like smoke/vapour blown in my face when I am eating. as for my wording, I cannot see how it can be any clearer, I clearly point out the difference in harm (one being harmful to others, the other is not) while saying that it can still be antisocial despite that.

 

[Castiel]

I feel the same way about people drinking alcohol in public places, they laugh and talk way to load. Ban it or tax it to hell.

I did not say ban it or tax it..I would be opposed to both measures as vaping is a good thing if it stops people smoking cigarettes, the Govt should be pushing it as a aid to stopping smoking if anything.

I simply think that it is antisocial to blow vapour in someone's face, or in their immediate vicinity when they are eating.

 

[Castiel]

There's a cracking Bill Hicks joke where he told a story about being outside having a cigarette when somebody came up to him and starting coughing at him. His response was "Shoot, it's a good job you don't smoke with that cough! I'm on forty a day and I don't even cough like that."

And he was dead from pancreatic cancer by the age of 32...cracking irony!!!

 

[PapaLazaru]

I know numerous now ex-heavy smokers that gave up by vaping. They just slowly reduced the nicotine content down and down in the juice till it was zero. They then gave up soon afterwards.

I used to smoke myself and managed to give up, unless I was out socially and drinking. I still do, but I vape instead. I am happy with the comprimise.

Fact is that vaping does work, but it still requires a lot of willpower and making sure the nicotine content is reduced, but it appears far easier than going cold turkey.

 

[estebanrey]

Are u a moron? You only have one life, putting **** into your body such a nicotine etc. only damages it why are you so viciously defending something that you know is damaging? You sound like a desperate junkie

OK, now I'm convinced you are just trolling. I'll bite anyway.


Putting nicotine into your body in controlled amounts has no (known) adverse affects on the human body, you you do know that right? Please tell me how in anyway putting nicotine into your body at the kind of levels provided by an e-cig 'damages' you.

 

[deuse]

Treadmill lol, try outside with hills then we will see how your diseased lungs hold up!
The fact is that smoking kills, it's bad for everyone, vaping should be taxed and controlled in the same way as nicotine is a habit forming drug, tax should be increased on tobacco and smokers should have to pay a fee for all related NHS treatmnet

They do already it's called TAX

 

[estebanrey]

No they are not..my personal preferences are the entirely relevant to whether I find someone blowing vapour into my face antisocial or not...

The key part of that is highlighted. What is anti-social is for SOCIETY to decide not an individual. By definition antisocial means 'against society', not against one person's opinion.

For anything to be anti-social it has to be deemed so by the collective.

it is not the same..you can decide not to enter a fish restaurant, or one that uses piped music..Eating is inherent to a restaurant environment...vaping is not, so they are not the same thing at all.

Not being the same doesn't mean they aren't comparable. You have no scientific basis to dislike vaping anymore than I have for fish dishes, it's nothing more than an irrational personal preference (on both our parts). Not to mention that the smell of e-cig vapour is entirely dependant on the flavour being used, unless you have an adverse to every smell in the world you cannot claim you hate the smell of e-cigs.

Also you don't have to go to a specialist fish restaurant, most of them serve it.

Personally I don't care if someone is vaping on the next table to me as long as it isn't interfering with my own meal or my enjoyment of it. I am also not demanding anyone is outcast from society, only that, as with all things, it is conducted in an appropriate manner.

Which is all very reasonable, but I don't get your previous 'people blowing vapour in your face' comment. Does anyone actually do this purposely? In which case I agree but I'd put those kind of people in the same category as the 'pull my finger' then farting crowd or anyone that doesn't have basic manners.

I have no idea what you are talking about here..are you saying that vapour is as harmful as cigarette smoke? because I have seen no evidence of that, I simply do not like smoke/vapour blown in my face when I am eating. as for my wording, I cannot see how it can be any clearer, I clearly point out the difference in harm (one being harmful to others, the other is not) while saying that it can still be antisocial despite that.

I was jumping on this comment you made....

I no more want to have vapour (which often smells of all kinds of things, not all good) blown in my face or in a restaurant etc than I do cigarette smoke.

That [i.e. 'no more'] implies you regard them as equally bad. Given the choice you should much prefer the former to the latter. Smelling something you don't like is less worse than both smelling something you dislike and having proven harmful chemicals in it as well.

As stated, I'll admit I'm maybe harshly jumping on the way you chose to word it so let's not debate this one for too long.

 

[deuse]

I did not say ban it or tax it..I would be opposed to both measures as vaping is a good thing if it stops people smoking cigarettes, the Govt should be pushing it as a aid to stopping smoking if anything.

I simply think that it is antisocial to blow vapour in someone's face, or in their immediate vicinity when they are eating.

Someone did this to you and you said nothing?
I did say ban or tax alcohol to the hilt. Can't stand the loud drunken gits.

He called me a moron actually if you bothered to read the whole post

Sir he called me a moron so I called him one back boooooo grow up.