Taking DNA from birth

dirtychinchilla · 25 Sep 2013 at 14:19

bitslice said:
Fundamental rights like personal privacy should not be willingly handed over just because the owner is too dense or gullible to think of reasons not to.
I've no faith in any of the generations to come that they will protect anything of value, I can envisage everything and anything willingly handed over for a new Xbox.

For equality, the generation that I'm part of would give up a hell of a lot.

FoxEye · 25 Sep 2013 at 14:26

dirtychinchilla said:
For equality, the generation that I'm part of would give up a hell of a lot.

Que? What's equality got to do with DNA databases?

UncleRuckus · 25 Sep 2013 at 14:32

FoxEye said:
Que? What's equality got to do with DNA databases?

He's a Marxist robot, ignore him.

Leprechaun312 · 25 Sep 2013 at 14:46

bitslice said:
I blame the poor standard of History education in schools

This i have to disagree on, in history at A level in Northern Ireland we are learning specifically about government and how often they do *** up. If you study politics again you learn about British politics and Westminster and it is HILARIOUS to read some of the stuff British politicians do.

If they were to do a DNA database i think they would make it their mission not to mess it up, because if they did very personal data would be leaked. There are ways to ensure that the data is held and as secure as possible.

Lunatic Dreyfus · 25 Sep 2013 at 14:53

Don't be so trusting of the establishment and those that enforce its will. They are not our friends.

Schlong&Stable · 25 Sep 2013 at 15:22

As you wish, the state sells my DNA to a pharma company, the company makes millions from using me, the state is compensated for my DNA.

So your argument is that you should receive a slice of the profits for your DNA sequence (if that is what we mean) being used? Well if the pharma pays the state and they are therefore able to keep taxes down, then you HAVE indirectly been paid.

But I don't imagine they'd sell it in the first place.

It's worrying that some people (notably the younger people) have such absolute faith in any government that it will

a. not screw up
b. not use that information against them

I blame the poor standard of History education in schools

I don't see anyone making that argument and I don't think this is a question of education or intelligence. Government is made up of people from the older generation (40+), who have demonstrated over the last twenty years just how incapable they are: flooding our nation with immigrants, taxing us to the hilt, selling out our sovereignty to Brussel, corruption and so forth. In short, the old generation have screwed society enough that I have a very sober view of their capabilities.

None of this explains why a DNA database is a problem, however.

checjb · 25 Sep 2013 at 15:29

I stumbled upon a debate on Radio 4 about this very subject the other day. I cannot remember who one of the debating parties was (a woman, I do recall that much) but she was from a respected body of some form and she expressed genuine concern about the selling of genetic data to third parties (e.g. Big Pharma and Insurance Groups). I can totally imagine a situation where an insurance compmay spots a 0.001% genetic propensity towards cancer and therefore denies me access to any life or medical insurance and blacklists me with other insurers too. Given the lengths that insurers will go to to wriggle out of claims, I'd be very surprised if they didn't.
As for the concept that they cannot currently sequence everyone's DNA etc, that is just a matter of the speed of sequencing technology. If it can be done, it will.
I'm more than happy to provide DNA as needed but I have 0% confidence that it will not be misused or sold for the exclusive profits of other parties. If there is money to be made from a throw-away email address like Hotmail then imagine the potential profit to be made by getting your corrupt little hands on my DNA profile.

checjb · 25 Sep 2013 at 15:31

Thompson_NCL said:
But I don't imagine they'd sell it in the first place.

Probably not the Government as a whole. More likely some corrupt little policitician out to line his own nest. Probably whilst announcing to great fanfare how he/she was releasing X million DNA profiles freely to help fight cancer or similar - all the while forgetting the nice little back-hander.

Schlong&Stable · 25 Sep 2013 at 15:33

checjb said:
Probably not the Government as a whole. More likely some corrupt little policitician out to line his own nest.

But why is a DNA database so much worse than a criminal database, dental, medical, tax, customer etc. etc. database?

dirtychinchilla · 25 Sep 2013 at 15:37

UncleRuckus said:
He's a Marxist robot, ignore him.

Yes, I hold no views of my own. I am an android.

FoxEye said:
Que? What's equality got to do with DNA databases?

He was blaming the potential downfall of society as he knows in on my generation. He's a known racist and bigot on this forum, as you probably know. We won't ruin the country, we'll do our best to make it equal.

bitslice · 25 Sep 2013 at 15:48

dirtychinchilla said:
He was blaming the potential downfall of society as he knows in on my generation + load of utter bullpoo

Well if you are incapable of correctly understanding my posts then I don't hold much hope of you standing up to state intrusion.

Yet more of your personal abuse RMT'd btw

I'm really sick of your liberal-fascist knee jerk reaction to anyone who you consider takes a different position (it's not just me either is it?), the irony of which if you actually had the intelligence to comprehend written English then you'd realise I'm neither of your assumptions :rolleyes:

Really, go back and read what I've written, PM me anything you think is awful and I'll explain it to you.
You clearly haven't the balls to do this in any public thread by quoting me in the past otherwise I could have nipped your snide insinuations back then, so I'm offering the chance for you to talk in private and save the embarrassment of your obvious stupidity.

If I agree with any of your points then I will go back and redact my posts in any open thread.
If I feel they require clarification then I will do likewise.

I think this indicates just how wrong you are

.

Schlong&Stable · 25 Sep 2013 at 15:51

dirtychinchilla said:
He was blaming the potential downfall of society as he knows in on my generation. He's a known racist and bigot on this forum, as you probably know. We won't ruin the country, we'll do our best to make it equal.

Speak for yourself. The modern concept of "Equality" is a blight that should be expunged.

ntg · 25 Sep 2013 at 16:29

FoxEye said:
But that's not how DNA matching works, or at least the full story, iirc. Its not as simple as abcdefg == abcdefg.

Some parts of the DNA sample may be missing, so they may match **cd*fg == abcdefg, and call that a partial match.

Although I'm not an expert, from what I gather they use partial matches as evidence. So they'd be interested in parts of your DNA, not just a hash of the whole thing.

well..hmmm..in that case they could hash the names of the people the dna belongs too, ending up with essentially anonymous dna samples. In case there is a full/partial match with a crime scene dna sample then they can compare the suspects name (after they code it with the same method) to the original donors hash..

of course people could change names, oh well..maybe they could hash part of the dna sample, or fingerprints or something.. etc..don't know, i'm sure they can figure out a pretty good way that would render either the dna samples useless to any private company or anonymised somehow.

dirtychinchilla · 25 Sep 2013 at 16:33

bitslice said:
Well if you are incapable of correctly understanding my posts then I don't hold much hope of you standing up to state intrusion.

Yet more of your personal abuse RMT'd btw

I'm really sick of your liberal-fascist knee jerk reaction to anyone who you consider takes a different position (it's not just me either is it?), the irony of which if you actually had the intelligence to comprehend written English then you'd realise I'm neither of your assumptions

Really, go back and read what I've written, PM me anything you think is awful and I'll explain it to you.
You clearly haven't the balls to do this in any public thread by quoting me in the past otherwise I could have nipped your snide insinuations back then, so I'm offering the chance for you to talk in private and save the embarrassment of your obvious stupidity.

If I agree with any of your points then I will go back and redact my posts in any open thread.
If I feel they require clarification then I will do likewise.

I think this indicates just how wrong you are

.

Which cases of personal abuse are these? Honestly, if I'm wrong, then I'll accept it. In my opinion, that is what you are. Racist is not a term of abuse, perhaps bigot is though. Still, I believe that you are bigoted.

I have quoted you in the past a number of times, actually. Primarily yourself, Uncle Ruckus, and sports bra (or whatever his name is). I'll remember to do that in future, though.

I am also fed up of your ultra-facist facist. I want people to be libereal, and I will stand by that position and argue it, because that is my position. No doubt you will continue to challenge it, and that's the point in opinions, right?

I'm not embarrassed by anything I say, but will happily admit I'm wrong and apologise, if necessary.

Thompson_NCL said:
Speak for yourself. The modern concept of "Equality" is a blight that should be expunged.

Don't be stupid. Equality is not a blight.

Westyfield2 · 25 Sep 2013 at 16:33

I'm all for "If you haven't committed a crime then there's nothing to worry about"... but these days I don't trust the government.

Malevolence · 25 Sep 2013 at 16:40

dirtychinchilla said:
Equality is not a blight.

When certain demographics appear to be treated more equally than others, then yes, I'm afraid it is a blight.

dirtychinchilla · 25 Sep 2013 at 17:14

Malevolence said:
When certain demographics appear to be treated more equally than others, then yes, I'm afraid it is a blight.

Then that isn't equality?

Tom_ed1987 · 25 Sep 2013 at 17:19

Over my dead body. Scope creep will inevitably lead to sinister use.

bitslice · 25 Sep 2013 at 17:40

dirtychinchilla said:
Which cases of personal abuse are these? Honestly, if I'm wrong, then I'll accept it. In my opinion, that is what you are. Racist is not a term of abuse

Yes it is, its defaming someone's charactor and in a legal sense it's an offence. It wouldn't fracking annoy me so blinking much if I agreed would it?

It really pees me off that so many in here read what they want a post to say according to their own prejudices and then run with it, and every day I have to sit there and correct their retarded assumptions rather than furthering my point :mad:

Total waste of fracking time

perhaps bigot is though. Still, I believe that you are bigoted.

Still wrong
"Based on - ethnicity, religion, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, disability, socioeconomic status"

Criticising aspects of a culture isn't bigoted.
Criticising aspects of a religion isn't bigoted.

In fact criticising anything is always giving people the public right to reply, you can't get more liberal than that.

I can hardly criticise aspects someone was born with, how are they supposed to reply to that?

I have quoted you in the past a number of times, actually.

Then you must just quote and run, otherwise we would have had this out by now.

I am also fed up of your ultra-facist facist.

Hardly... some days I'm a Communist

I want people to be libereal, and I will stand by that position and argue it, because that is my position. No doubt you will continue to challenge it, and that's the point in opinions, right?

Liberalism I have nothing against, it's the politically correct denigration of existing culture that I dislike, one person's freedom is often at the expense of another's.

I'm not embarrassed by anything I say, but will happily admit I'm wrong and apologise, if necessary.

Dengrating people in unrelated threads purely because you don't like someone would be a good thing to cut out, eh? I don't follow all the lib-tards around the forum and call them stupid, I call them out in the thread they posted in with why I think they are wrong. Invariably they go quiet after the second post.
Calling me a racist and a bigot in a thread about DNA is off topic, completely unrelated and frankly completely out of order, if you are not embarrassed at such pointless and fallacious abuse then we don't have a lot to say to each other. Good job at pointlessly derailing someone's thread too, mods must be sleeping today.

Pom Pom · 25 Sep 2013 at 18:02

Do the supporters also support the 'nothing to hide, nothing to fear' argument?