GF wants me to go to church with her......

Did you misread my post or something?

No, did you misread mine? Richard Dawkins attempt at redefinition of Atheism aside, the point is that what an individual believes is not objectively harmful, how they apply those beliefs and if they force those views on others against their will then we have potentially at least, objective harm. This is true of religion and non-religion constructs within society.

Carl Sagan did not see Atheism as Richard Dawkins does, he ascribed to a traditional view of agnosticism as defined by Thomas Huxley, he was, as Huxley was, a free-thinker...he had no active position on whether God was extant or not...

Huxley wrote:

“When I reached intellectual maturity and began to ask myself whether I was an atheist, a theist, or a pantheist; a materialist or an idealist; Christian or a freethinker; I found that the more I learned and reflected, the less ready was the answer; until, at last, I came to the conclusion that I had neither art nor part with any of these denominations, except the last. The one thing in which most of these good people were agreed was the one thing in which I differed from them. They were quite sure they had attained a certain “gnosis,”–had, more or less successfully, solved the problem of existence; while I was quite sure I had not, and had a pretty strong conviction that the problem was insoluble.
So I took thought, and invented what I conceived to be the appropriate title of “agnostic.” It came into my head as suggestively antithetic to the “gnostic” of Church history, who professed to know so much about the very things of which I was ignorant. To my great satisfaction the term took.”

Richard Dawkins, by his own admission, feels he has 'more or less' attained a level of knowledge on whether God exists or not...(99.9% or 6.9 out of 7 sure of his convictions is how he phrases it on his 1-7 scale in that debate with the Arch-Bishop I think)...this is not how Huxley defined agnosticism, nor is Huxley's Agnosticism how Carl Sagan defined Atheism either.

While there are many definitions and re-definitions floating about for a range of philosophical positions including Atheism, you quoted Sagan, so we should really maintain the context with which Sagan defined Atheism.

Personally I think ultimately Atheism and Agnosticism are both flawed insofar that they both hold that the question "does God exist" is a valid proposition in the first instance...until there is a universally coherent definition of God that is actually testable, the question, in my opinion, is pretty meaningless on any practical basis.

I also feel that people get too invested in whether God exists or not, when really the questions, scrutiny and criticisms are really to do with how we manifest our beliefs, whether they are theistic or otherwise. There is a difference between atheism, agnosticism and theism and what most people are actually arguing about, which is a modern form of Anti-Clericism....and in that, whether you believe in God or not is immaterial.

Anyway, that's what I believe, although unlike Prof Dawkins I have no arbitrary scale to ascertain its truth value, I simply remain a sceptic... and it's now time for my bed. Goodnight all, and try to be nice to each other. :)
 
Last edited:
I've always been curious about the 'wondering' about a Gods existence and ultimately what the end result of the 'discovery' would be. There are few religions that operate with a broad and self redefining agenda (if any), in fact, the majority are to the contrary in that their deity is often well defined as is the requirements for the followers lifestyles and beliefs.

What, ultimately, is the point in attempting to prove that .1% as being true when the end result simply can't (because scripture is supposed to be unquestionable and unchanging) and doesn't change (for the same reasons)? Surely in that discovery, all those tenants within their belief systems would be thrown into disarray? If a God suddenly turned up and said - "yep the book is right - just keep doing that" then no issue, but what if he/she/it said "things are gonna change" then surely the rest of the texts would fall into question?

When there is so much to actually genuinely question and discover, why search for something that up until now, has never had basis to be in existence beyond opinion and speculation? What is it that has provided the spark that causes people to go hunting for a 'God' in a similar level of reasoning to physics, chemistry and other physical sciences?

I don't 'get' what the religious 'proof' endgame is beyond proving that any given book or philosophy is right. Moreover I don't understand spending the time in something that already has a defined endgame.

As for the OP - personally I'd bail unless you're prepared to make some serious compromises in your lifestyle and belief system because you'll be sniffed out pretty quickly otherwise.
 
Your "Girlfriend" wants you to go to church with her...but is it that "YOU" want..Dont let her put you in a position you dont want to be in,If your not religius then just say no...if she doesn't like it then maybe she is not the right person for you or vice versa.
 
There is no compulsion to attend Church or believe in any religion in our family...my son goes to a Catholic School (for educational reasons rather than religious ones) and sometimes we go to Church together, but neither I nor he is a Catholic, that decision will be his to make when he feels he is ready to make that decision for himself. My wife is not especially devout, it isn't an every Sunday thing, and we do not always go with her, or most times I go and my son is doing other stuff he enjoys..it is just on various occasions we all go together as a family and sometimes we all support the work the local Church does in our community, but then we also support the local CofE church as well, personally we feel that something right in our community should be supported, whatever religion or secular ideology that instigates it is largely immaterial, and charity for others is a good example to give our son.

We ensure any Catholic religious education my son receives is tempered with other world-views, both spiritual and secular...then it is up to him to decide...currently like most boys of 14 his religion is rock music, gaming and girls...I don't think God really enters his perception., other than Thor in The Avengers or The Almighty Johnsons.


+1

I could have wrote the same about my own family. My wifes Father is a Pastor and her Mother is the typical Pastors wife. My wife was raised that way but is lapsed, I showed her the true path ;) I myself am not religious, hatchings, matchings and dispatchings are my main resons for going to church. We support the schools (4 kids) and church as they do good things in the community.

-------

Do you not think its time to put faith in the thinking humans have now evolved past the need to kill each other over such things?

@OP

Every thing in life is a compramise, pics and I'm sure GD wll help you decided.

Sorry for spellings, not my strong point.
 
Last edited:
As for the OP - personally I'd bail unless you're prepared to make some serious compromises in your lifestyle and belief system because you'll be sniffed out pretty quickly otherwise.

What compromises do you speak of Steve?








Bible reading break for the thread.

Acts 10 :
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
 
Last edited:
What compromises do you speak of Steve?

Those of a non church going person having to go to what too all description appears to be a fairly strict flavor of religion. I guess he could just rock on up and make all the right noises but if you're going to commit because of a relationship basis then to not make compromises and life changes would be disingenuous would it not?

Bible reading break for the thread.

Acts 10 :
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

So basically God is good with you as long as you fear his wrath and do good deeds that align with his expectations of what is good? Why not just do good things because it's good to do them? Why do you need to be coerced into it? Are people really that inherently bad or does god just assume that this is the case?
 
Last edited:
Those of a non church going person having to go to what too all description appears to be a fairly strict flavor of religion. I guess he could just rock on up and make all the right noises but if you're going to commit because of a relationship basis then to not make compromises and life changes would be disingenuous would it not?

Well we do not know the OP's lifestyle, though generally I would have to agree with you wholeheartedly.
The way the Church is as a whole and with the different fractions, you're going to be walking on eggshells in most congregations as regard to their specific customs, generalities e.t.c. If that makes sense?
From my experience the some of the most critical, judgemental people reside in these places. Then again there will always be at least one or more there with the right fertile spirit.


*Edit. Did you take the photos in that flickr link Steve? I presume you are a professional photographer if you did, beautiful photographs.
 
Last edited:
Well we do not know the OP's lifestyle, though generally I would have to agree with you wholeheartedly.
The way the Church is as a whole and with the different fractions, you're going to be walking on eggshells in most congregations as regard to their specific customs, generalities e.t.c. If that makes sense?
From my experience the some of the most critical, judgemental people reside in these places. Then again there will always be at least one or more there with the right fertile spirit.

Huh - in my experience they're full of people constantly looking for sin and ardent self flagellators. I can't even begin to imagine trying to spend my life eternally thinking the worst about myself and others - it's such a grim existence. Life's too short to waste it in a judgmental 'never able to do right' environment - I especially can't imagine bringing up children in it. Life is awesome - people are awesome - embrace the good stuff!

*Edit. Did you take the photos in that flickr link Steve? I presume you are a professional photographer if you did, beautiful photographs.

Thank you - they are my photos, but no it's just a hobby - you're extremely kind to say so though!
 
W3PgvEz.jpg
 
Back
Top Bottom