On Benefits & Proud

estebanrey said:
No the reason your grandad could buy a 3 bed house was because houses were cheaper in relation to wages. It wasn't that wages were higher.

There was also far, far less stuff that one could have and what society said you should have. When my parents (now both retired) bought their house it was £30,000 (which was about 5 times my dad's annual salary), yet they sold it 20 years later for £250,000 (over 10 times what my dad was earning by that time from the same job).

They didn't have a foreign holiday until they mid 90s, the vast majority of their lives was a yearly trip to Bognor and that was it. They had one TV and the rest of their money went on food and clothes. Now they have a TV in every room, a couple of computers, an e-reader, a car each, several pets, various insurance plans, internet bills, online subscriptions to various services etc.

But like you the harp on about the pre-Thaterchite era not even seeing themselves how much simpler and less stuff you were expected to buy/own was back then.
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Your parents grew up in post war Britain, of course they had nothing.
 
Dolph said:
Much of the evidence depends on whether you agree with the cherry picking in the spirit level though. We have been through this before, I consider the report dishonest and discredited as when you include all similar countries, the correlation goes away.

We should at least be honest and not refer to relative poverty in full to make it clear and prevent any unwarrented emotional responses to an emotive word.
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The word poverty has two definitions, you were the one cherry picking it to mean 'absolute poverty' to fit your argument in an attempt to discredit the point being made.

Do you honestly believe that out of all the things in society, income differences in a given population have no notable impact? - why on earth would that be the case?.

If diet, average sleep levels, crime, education, pollution, daylight hours per day, unemployment, age, gender, genetics, parental upbringing & literally millions of other variables will influence a society - why would income differences not also be a factor which influences social cohesion?.

Please give examples specifically regarding the studies on income inequality, as the spirit level isn't the only one either.
 
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I earn £16500 a year, i'm far better off than I would ever be on benefits.

Unless they pop kids out they won't be either.

I got a job because I wan't the luxurys in life.

I would be ridiculously bored without a job aswell.
 
It is annoying. What hurts is that when my mum who had been a nurse for over 30yrs needed to claim benefits to pay for thr bills due to not being able to work because of cancer, she was basically told at one point you cannot claim because you have paid taxes your whole life so why do you need benefit now? After 5-6 months of no money coming in and me and my sister trying to keep the bills paid as my dad left a month before the diagnosis the benefit was finally agreed.

We were made to feel like criminals for asking help from tje government despite paying in to the system for years!
 
Something Else said:
It is annoying. What hurts is that when my mum who had been a nurse for over 30yrs needed to claim benefits to pay for thr bills due to not being able to work because of cancer, she was basically told at one point you cannot claim because you have paid taxes your whole life so why do you need benefit now? After 5-6 months of no money coming in and me and my sister trying to keep the bills paid as my dad left a month before the diagnosis the benefit was finally agreed.

We were made to feel like criminals for asking help from tje government despite paying in to the system for years!
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That doesn't sound right. I suggest your mother contact a charity like http://www.turn2us.org.uk/, they should run through the benefits she is entitled to.
 
Ay, it doesn't sound right at all - contact as mentioned above?.

Does she have significant savings? (as that can sometimes go against a person claiming).
 
My work sees me on the social housing estates of our dear nation on a daily basis. Anyone who tries to rationalise this as not a massive problem is quite frankly deluded.
 
Something Else said:
We were made to feel like criminals for asking help from tje government despite paying in to the system for years!
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Wait till you walk into a jobcentre after working for several years. You get treated like an idiot with no skills who gets blamed for not writing 1 made-up line on paper.

Instead of offering advice.
 
kitch9 said:
My work sees me on the social housing estates of our dear nation on a daily basis. Anyone who tries to rationalise this as not a massive problem is quite frankly deluded.
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Define massive, you mean as a percentage of GDP, or total welfare bill massive - just when you say massive do you just mean "big according to my experience".

As the two are very different.
 
I watched said programme the other day.

I personally found it incredible sad. The way channel 5 has victimised poor people is ridiculous. The lady with the sky/virgin tv was clearly playing up for the camera and you can guarantee the director/producer off camera was egging her on.

As I work with people that are socially disadvantaged, this programme is not a accurate representation on people on benefits.

I'm sure that deep down anyone living off the state does not want to.
 
Generally the way tv shows like this work is they put bits together, so if you said something and then said something later they'd put it together to make it seem like that entire line was said. They also tell you what to say!

Channel 4 does it a lot, I have a bit of experience with Channel 4 myself. They lie, edit things together and put bits in that never happened for RATINGS.
 
Dolph said:
Ask the staff at grangemouth refinery what their union is doing for them at the moment...
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Fighting with the Scottish Government and apparently the UK Government to stop the company economically blackmailing the 'nation'. ;) The Union and Government gave them the assurance they sought three days ago apparently, after the original talks nearly succeeded in agreement before the CEO demanded a personal apology into the bargain it is claimed.

The company accounting practices are also now being drawn into question, so it might not be as straight forward as is first presented.

It will be interesting if Labour can add any flesh to the accusation of Government conspiracy.

Dolph said:
In fact, you can also ask former miners, steelworkers, car plant workers in the midlands and a whole host of other people what happens when wages are driven up by industrial action...

You do also realise that Thatcher had the support of the nation when she crushed the blackmailers?
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Support of which 'nation' exactly?
 
estebanrey said:
Anyone see this on Monday night? If not....

http://www.channel5.com/shows/on-benefits-proud/episodes/on-benefits-proud

Made my blood boil! Yes, I know this is a selected group of benefits claimants and not everyone is like that, yada yada but I do think the left wing media (i.e Guardian) and the likes of SpankenTexan over-estimate the genuine bad luck stories of the successful £30k a year worker who finds himself redundant and like to pretend those shown in the documentary above are just extremes and a tiny minority. The fact is where these people live there are whole communities of people who think like the people in the programme.

By personal favourite highlights were...

* The woman talking about Sky (paying for TV) in the same context as paying the heating the bill.

* The same woman saying she'd happily take a job if it would pay her £500 a week AFTER all other expenses had been paid.

* The same woman again having a go at her daughter for getting a job.

* The workless guy saying he was 'knackered' at quarter past 9 in the morning after doing nowt since he'd got up.

* The girl who lives entirely off the state claiming she was an 'independent woman'.

* The woman with 11 children who claimed she was entitled to society paying for her because she has 11 kids and there is 'no law saying how many kids you can have'.

*The bloke saying that footballers get £90k a week when they don't deserve it (who is then seen buying the Sky packages and football shirts that fund those wages)

The sad thing is just how uneducated these people are. You can hear it in everything they say and they seem to not be able to understand basic rationality or how an economy works.
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It's SPANKING not spanken, I am not overestimating anything, it is a fact that there is a minority who abuse the system including some in employment but people like you and this Government are clearly intent on demonising benefit claimants. It's no secret I support Boycott workfare where benefit claimants are FORCED to work for free but I think you're just one of those who believes everything you read or see on the telly, someone mentioned a lack of documentary's on benefit claimants who really struggle from day to day which is of course the majority of claimants, but I suppose the likes of you and this joke of a Government are never going to highlight those claimants, I mean It wont fit in with your plan to dismantle the welfare state, a lifeline you just may need yourself one day.
 
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It was a couple years ago now and everything is sorted. Mums all healthy. But was a stressfull time and seeing and knoeing some people who live off the state when they could and should be working makes my.blood boil.

You can normally spot the type of person a mile off too.
 
spankingtexan said:
It's SPANKING not spanken, I am not overestimating anything, it is a fact that there is a minority who abuse the system but people like you and this Government are clearly intent on demonising benefit claimants.
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There are a minority who get caught committing fraud... there are a shed load more who could simply do with getting a kick up the ass and made to work. I don't see a big issue with 'demonising' benefit claimants... if you're going to sponge off the rest of us and aren't doing everything in your power to go find work you shouldn't be feeling anything other than shame/guilt.

It's no secret I support Boycott workfare where benefit claimants are FORCED to work for free but I think you're just one of those who believes everything you read or see on the telly, someone mentioned a lack of documentary's on benefit claimants who really struggle from day to day which is of course the majority of claimants, but I suppose the likes of you and this joke of a Government are never going to highlight those claimants, I mean It wont fit in with your plan to dismantle the welfare state, a lifeline you just may need yourself one day.
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I don't see a problem with it short term but for long term claimants I really don't see the excuses... frankly I couldn't see myself ever lacking in motivation *that* much... If you've been unemployed for a while and really want work, any work, you can find it pretty easily assuming you're not a total and utter pleb... hundreds of thousands of people, for whom English is a second language, come to our country every year legally and otherwise.... these people manage to find paying work while a significant portion of our native white trash are supposedly unable to. Frankly workfare doesn't go far enough IMO. While you can lap up all the sob stories you like it isn't going to change the reality that a lot of hard working people don't like to see the money they earn being wasted on people who are simply taking the mickey.
 
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spankingtexan said:
It's SPANKING not spanken, I am not overestimating anything, it is a fact that there is a minority who abuse the system but people like you and this Government are clearly intent on demonising benefit claimants. It's no secret I support Boycott workfare where benefit claimants are FORCED to work for free but I think you're just one of those who believes everything you read or see on the telly, someone mentioned a lack of documentary's on benefit claimants who really struggle from day to day which is of course the majority of claimants, but I suppose the likes of you and this joke of a Government are never going to highlight those claimants, I mean It wont fit in with your plan to dismantle the welfare state, a lifeline you just may need yourself one day.
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Let them dismantle it i say mate, Scrap it all and let everyone fend for themselves and watch complete chaos ensue.The fact is people will never be happy and they judge intelligence on the wrong aspects.He thinks all benefit claimants look the same, talk the same and are all stupid.Yet how about the £12 billion per year given to the EU with no questions asked? How much was spent on the Iraq,Afghanistan,Libya,Syria conflicts? How much was given to the banks £40bn? How much spent on a war on drugs that is impossible to win? There is plenty of money in the world son enough to feed and house even human on earth by estimates.


The truth is benefits are only being stigmatized now the UK has been robbed by the banks and immigrants and filling min wage jobs and thus dropping the value of labour.When the good times rolled no one ever said as much as boo about benefits.They are using them as a scapegoat while offering them no way of self sustainment which in my opinion is a lax form of enslavement.
 
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Mr Joshua said:
Oh no we need our wars, it makes good money right from the mercenaries that fight them through to the arms manufacturers, good for the economy, what?
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An economy we do not need to be honest.We need a navy consisting of a few carriers with planes a Few Nuclear subs and a small marine based army to defend the UK Gibraltar and the Falklands but nothing bigger like we have in afghanistan and all those reservists and land vehicles built on purpose for fighting abroad.America basically threw billions maybe a trillion into fighting on terrain that is not even the same as its own territory.


For example the new vehicles sent out that are supposedly IED proof turning out that the whole programme can be undone by simply making bigger cheaper bombs like a 600lbs buried under the road will flip the vehicle and kill everyone simply through the shockwave.Us doing the boots on the ground stuff is just a waste of money and men.A naval fleet with long range unmanned aircraft can do the same job backed up by a local militia at a hell of a lower cost.They are already doing this now anyways by mostly going after the leaders with drones and small snatch and grab raids with special forces.

The USA have a whole economy based on this though they would never let go.And they are probably one of the worst offender on welfare and healthcare too.
 
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