Nelson Mandela has died

Danthus · 5 Dec 2013 at 23:20

Neil79 said:
We all don't actually, who's WE and who's ALL?. He's done nothing for any one that I know of personally.

The problem is, we live in such a politically correct world now that people are afraid to cast an honest opinion and you end up with fawning masses.

Pudney · 5 Dec 2013 at 23:26

KautoStar said:
Did he build the bombs himself ?

Did he plants the bombs himself ?

Did he directly order the mass murder of civilians?

Or was it all just part and parcel of the organization and timed. Basically he couldn't really control everything that went on ?

He was the co-founder and chairman of the terrorist arm of the ANC, the actual terrorist arm itself... :confused:

ilcp · 5 Dec 2013 at 23:26

Kenai said:
It's always going to be contentious - apartheid was clearly something that needed to challenged but was it right and just to do so by inciting mass murder, terrorism and even torture? Some will say no, others will say yes.

Same question, was it "justified" for US to invade Afganistan and kill millions? just because of 9/11? Was it justfied for them to invade Iraq? How are they going to be remembered when they die? for lying to us about WMD? for killing innocent civilians?

Why people not look in their own backyard!

Raymond Lin · 5 Dec 2013 at 23:30

BBC Obituary.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-10773745

I am not an historian but what began as a peaceful organisation (ANC) only went underground and with it, violence, because the government made its party illegal.

He then served 27 years in prison for his crime which when freed, spent the rest of his days for peace for the betterment of his people.

These days South Africa is a democracy, and whatever he did to get his country there, clearly even his people think he did right, who are we to judge as outsiders? Besides the point that history will remember him for the good more than the bad.

Suarez7 · 5 Dec 2013 at 23:34

:/

batsy · 5 Dec 2013 at 23:36

KautoStar said:
Did he build the bombs himself ?

Did he plant the bombs himself ?

Did he directly order the mass murder of civilians?

Or was it all just part and parcel of the organization and times. Basically he couldn't really control everything that went on ?

Arise Sir Gerry

TJM · 5 Dec 2013 at 23:37

Von Smallhausen said:
We all have skeletons in our closet and you need not look further than Northern Ireland to see how convicted terrorists and killers come to the political foy for, you would hope, the greater good.

Or to Britain, where Winston Churchill is considered a hero for his leadership in World War II and a blind eye is turned to various atrocities. I'm pretty sure none of the 'Nelson is a terrorist' brigade have given a moment's thought to the double standard that they apply when weighing up those awful foreigners.

[TW]Sponge · 5 Dec 2013 at 23:41

estebanrey · 5 Dec 2013 at 23:42

Kaapstad · 5 Dec 2013 at 23:44

Raymond Lin said:
BBC Obituary.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-10773745

I am not an historian but what began as a peaceful organisation (ANC) only went underground and with it, violence, because the government made its party illegal.

He then served 27 years in prison for his crime which when freed, spent the rest of his days for peace for the betterment of his people.

These days South Africa is a democracy, and whatever he did to get his country there, clearly even his people think he did right, who are we to judge as outsiders? Besides the point that history will remember him for the good more than the bad.

Some of us are not outsiders.

Raymond Lin · 5 Dec 2013 at 23:45

Kaapstad said:
Some of us are not outsiders.

Is there a second part to that sentence? :confused:

plasmahal · 5 Dec 2013 at 23:53

KautoStar said:
Did he build the bombs himself ?

Did he plant the bombs himself ?

Did he directly order the mass murder of civilians?

Or was it all just part and parcel of the organization and times. Basically he couldn't really control everything that went on ?

So by those comments, what made nelson mandela so different from someone like osama bin laden?

Their beliefs were different but they used certain methods to get there beliefs across whether you believe the cause was just ir not, it's what THEY believed in....

Kaapstad · 5 Dec 2013 at 23:55

Raymond Lin said:
Is there a second part to that sentence?

Only that most of my family are South African.

As said earlier Nelson Mandala did well for the country.

Biohazard · 5 Dec 2013 at 23:57

I do think news anchors well over ham it these days.

shadow_boxer · 5 Dec 2013 at 23:59

R.I.P. A truely inspirational, brave and heroic man.

Regy53 · 5 Dec 2013 at 23:59

The man was in prison for the length of my life time.. Respect

Yes he may not of helped you personally but what a insperation

EGuitarStar · 6 Dec 2013 at 00:00

May you progress to the next level of existence.

RIP.

EGuitarStar · 6 Dec 2013 at 00:01

Double post

Raymond Lin · 6 Dec 2013 at 00:03

Kaapstad said:
Only that most of my family are South African.

As said earlier Nelson Mandala did well for the country.

I gather that much, and knew it when I wrote it (I read Krooton's post), not sure the point of pointing it out was? :confused:

As in, the rest of what I said, do you agree, disagree, you own opinion of something in between may be?

One More Solo · 6 Dec 2013 at 00:06

krooton said:
As a South African who is fully aware of his history, I still think he was a great man, who did more than enough good to atone for the bad things he did in his youth, even if it wasn't a direct apology as some people seem to be baying for.

I was there, Apartheid was ****ed up, he did what he had to do and many people paid the price, but what he accomplished after all of that (keep in mind he was imprisoned for 28 years) was groundbreaking for the country.

Better a man to have done terrible things, but also great ones, than a man who did nothing at all.

RIP Madibadela.

I think this is probably the best take on it, although I'm a utilitarian at heart.