End of the tax disc

I quite like the charging of motorways - in France it makes for a much more pleasant driving experience, the roads are usually better quality, and makes them less busy. That could then do away with road tax altogether. Though I guess again the local councils would need to pay for the road repairs so would raise the council tax costs.

There's no obvious or easy answer I guess.
 
Glaucus said:
Co2 is also the biggest greenhouse gas, with 85% being co2.
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Statements like this are incredibly misleading. CO2 is about the 'weakest' of any greenhouse gas we emit, N2O, CH4 and water vapour having a much much stronger impact on the greenhouse.

Whilst CO2 emissions make up the bulk of gasses emitted, the error range in calculating what proportion of the greenhouse effect they create is massive; it's nigh on impossible to calculate due to concurrent emittance and absorbency. It is absolutely critical to note that as CO2 levels rise, the greenhouse impact is nowhere near directly correlated, and a model much closer to an inverse log is the case, meaning over time the impact of releasing the same quantity of co2 gets less and less.

Co2 has very much become a scapegoat. Whilst it is important to try and reduce it being released, one shouldn't lose sight of the bigger picture. If you examine the climate models people use in depth, you realise the margins of error are absolutely phenomenal, and data can be manipulated to fit any agenda, climate positive or climate negative, very easily. Rahmstorf published a paper in 2007 which predicted future sea level rise in response to ground temp change. This paper has been cited scientifically 900+ times now, but when the method is recreated, even undergrad students can prove he absolutely wrecked the dataset in order to get a dramatic conclusion.

Government policy worldwide is often based on these predictions, simulations, the like... and when you realise they are often manipulated, or have wild levels of error, it can create immense scepticism towards taxation based on greenhouse ideals.
 
In theory, if the VED was transferred to fuel costs, an increase of .20p per litre would leave me in the same net position as my current £260.00 VED.

Interesting figures, if mostly pointless.
 
I would hope that if VED was transferred to fuel costs, it would make people more reluctant to make pointless journeys, to reduce their mileage, thus reducing the amount of traffic on roads. Could kill 2 birds with one stone and help fight increasing obesity rates too...

I can only dream however
 
Freefaller said:
I quite like the charging of motorways - in France it makes for a much more pleasant driving experience, the roads are usually better quality, and makes them less busy. That could then do away with road tax altogether. Though I guess again the local councils would need to pay for the road repairs so would raise the council tax costs.

There's no obvious or easy answer I guess.
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Two tier roads then though like Italy. Roads are worse than Uk except for the autostrade
 
rossk26 said:
I would hope that if VED was transferred to fuel costs, it would make people more reluctant to make pointless journeys, to reduce their mileage, thus reducing the amount of traffic on roads. Could kill 2 birds with one stone and help fight increasing obesity rates too...

I can only dream however
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It's not like fuel is free now !
 
Hxc said:
Statements like this are incredibly misleading. CO2 is about the 'weakest' of any greenhouse gas we emit, N2O, CH4 and water vapour having a much much stronger impact on the greenhouse.

s.
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It relay isn't misleading(edit, actually maybe it is, what it meant was 85% of greenhouses gas from transport is co2 ). It might be one of the weaker greenhouse gases, but we pump it out in staggering quantities compared to methane, water vapour etc.
As to the rest of it I agree. You also have to remember although co2 is heavily pushed to public and regulation. They are regulating the other gases and pollutants as well.
 
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85% of CO2 doesn't come from transport, it is about 13% worldwide. More comes from Agriculture than Transport. Forestry produces significantly more as does energy production, particularly now companies are are using energy inefficient production methods such as tar sands oil.
 
Glaucus said:
actually maybe it is, what it meant was 85% of co2 produced is from transport
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Where do you get this stuff? It's hard to take you seriously with gems like this, thats such a massive error in figures it makes me wonder if you understand this stuff or just read it from Wikipedia.
 
Glaucus said:
It relay isn't misleading
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Relay%25201.jpg


?
 
An interesting thread.
I do wish they would just sod off VED all together and slap it onto fuel.

The current system is very outdated. I did 1 year of PhD study (quit it) on environmental manufacturing and whilst I have no source to hand to back this statement up, 'scrapping a perfectly good 10 year old car for a new one with lower CO2 output is sustainable suicide' is what I found out from all the stuff I read (which seemed to be 37 hours a week of reading!).

The only thing that the whole VED system does is promote prematurely killing off perfectly good, reliable, rust free cars in favour of complicated new ones so people can brag how low their VED is at the pub.
It is a system that promotes the sale of cars that we probably didn't even build in the UK.

I am all for a more modern way of taxing a vehicle, as it makes no sense my 1992 1.6 mx5 falling into the top tax band when I don't do many miles in it. I could BUY one for the same price as the tax disc this time of year, albeit a ropey and rotten one. This means ones that could still pass an MOT will be crushed - This does not make sense, but many people cannot see past the price of a tax disc.
There is pretty much a straight correlation between what a tailpipe emits and the fuel consumed. Burn less fuel and you emit less.

As others have said, the key is reducing how much and/or how far you drive. Also don't floor it everywhere. Walk to the shops once in a while!
 
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And now as a result of the removal of tax discs:

Private Car Sales Cannot be Sold with Road Tax...

Motorists that sell cars privately will not be entitled to offer the “unexpired tax” incentive from October 2014, the Automobile Association has revealed. Sellers will have to claim vehicle excise duty refunds for any remaining months from the Driver Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA). Buyers will then have to pay road tax online, at post offices or via telephone before taking to the road. - See more at: http://www.motoring.co.uk/car-news/...=newsletter&src=motoring#sthash.ARZbk2RT.dpuf
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Click
 
Rilot said:
I wish they'd just stick it on fuel and be done with it.
The present system is just stupid as many of the highest polluters actually pay less than many of the lowest polluters.

Mr Goodsell does 40k miles per year in his low polluting, 2013 114d. He pays £20/year and produces over 7 tonnes of carbon. He feels smug because of his low-emissions vehicle.
Mr Bigfarm does 10k miles per year in the Range Rover he needs to get across his farm. He pays £490/year and produces 5 tonnes of carbon.
Mr Oldman does 2k miles per year in his 2006 Ford Mondeo 2.0. He pays £260/year and produces 0.6 tonnes of carbon.
Mr Flashgit does 500 miles per year in his Ferrari 599. He pays £490/year and produces 0.3 tonnes of carbon.

If they put it on fuel, the most polluting people will pay the most. Simple.
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I really like this idea, but with the added cravat that LPG drivers (I.E ME :D) pay no tax to reflect the fuel being effectively CO2 neutral.
 
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