- Joined
- 9 Apr 2012
- Posts
- 13,166
I agree.
'Xmas' is not a word what is wrong with you
- Thread starter [FnG]magnolia
- Start date
I agree.
The same Bible created and compiled by the same councils who created and complied the Liturgical Calendar. Christmas has everything to do with Christianity....it forms an inherent basis in the liturgical calendars of all forms of Christianity other than the very few...including the group you will not admit to being a member of, but whose beliefs you mirror almost exactly. The misconceptions come from the spread of organised Christianity and the assimilation of local customs into already existing liturgy. The most common and one of the most recent being Christmas Trees..this gives the impression (largely focused by relatively recent critics of Religion and exponents of modern Paganism) that Christianity stole the festival, when in fact it simply evoked independently and over time assimilated local customs from the cultures in which it flourished.
Minority on this forum or not...I am still correct.
Last edited:
BS, end of.
- Joined
- 9 Apr 2012
- Posts
- 13,166
We celebrate Christmas because of the Pagans - end of.
Man of Honour
- Joined
- 17 Nov 2003
- Posts
- 36,747
- Location
- Southampton, UK
Christmas may not have been a purely Christian festival when it started, but it is primarily now - that's quite hard to deny. If it were purely pagan, it would have died out a long time ago, but it hasn't and that's due to Christianity.
We don't...but feel free to believe whatever you wish.
Pagan traditions only survived at all because of the inclusive assimilative nature of Christianity. It should be pointed out also that many pagan religions are modern inventions.
- Joined
- 9 Apr 2012
- Posts
- 13,166
Now, that is true! But we didn't start celebrating it because of Christianity.
Man of Honour
- Joined
- 17 Nov 2003
- Posts
- 36,747
- Location
- Southampton, UK
That's pretty irrelevant though. We're celebrating it now because of Christianity.
Indeed.
We do.
Xmas is a revision of the Pagan festival of Yule, a mixture of the English geol [magic] and the Norse "hjol" [wheel] relating to the Wheel of the Year. It was a celebration of the Winter Solstice and the return of the sun [return of the Son] after which point the daylight would elongate throughout the year until Midsummer.
The Christians were great at stealing other peoples' traditions. Also we have no idea whether the tradition would have died out without the Christians. Pure speculation.
Man of Honour
- Joined
- 17 Nov 2003
- Posts
- 36,747
- Location
- Southampton, UK
Ahh yes, geol and hjol, that's exactly what I think of when I think of Christmas.
Soldato
- Joined
- 7 Aug 2004
- Posts
- 11,276
Of course you don't, you don't know the origin of Yule. But you don't need to know it to celebrate it.
I agree that celebrating Xmas is definitely not about what it once was. But that is the origin.
Christianity created Christmas through its various Liturgical Councils when attempting to create a universal Church, it was an evolution of various beliefs and observances..Augustine ET Al already knew about the observance and recognised it prior to the creation of the Liturgical Calendar. Some Christians were already observing the birth of Christ, others were not..Donatists for example were already observing a festival in December, Eastern Christians were observing it in January...it was not until far later that pagan traditions began to be assimilated in Christian Tradition, in fact early Christianity spent an inordinate amount of effort distancing itself from association with Paganism not the other way around.
It is a common misconception.
- Joined
- 9 Apr 2012
- Posts
- 13,166
To summarise: Christmas is Pagan, which was taken by Christianity as a good way to celebrate the birth of Christ.
I'm a Christian myself and I don't care that it's stolen! Of course we celebrate it now because we 'associate' it with the birth of Christ, but to say it began because of Christianity is just wrong, sorry.
I'm a Christian myself and I don't care that it's stolen! Of course we celebrate it now because we 'associate' it with the birth of Christ, but to say it began because of Christianity is just wrong, sorry.
Man of Honour
- Joined
- 17 Nov 2003
- Posts
- 36,747
- Location
- Southampton, UK
This is like the argument of the broomstick. A man has a wooden broomstick and uses it daily for several years. One day he breaks the handle in half, so he fashions a new handle out of the rail from an old wardrobe. His broomstick is repaired and he carries on using it. A few years later the head is looking a bit worn, so he replaces the bristles and his broom brushes as it did when new. So at this point the broom is more replaces parts than it is original, so is it still the same brush?
The pagan festival has been changed so much over the years it's no longer anywhere recognisable as the same festival and is now a completely different one.
Yule was not assimilated in Christianity until centuries after Christmas was already an inherent observance in the Christian Calendar. In fact the Christian and Germanic festivals are dated from a similar time..around the 4th Century, but neither had contact with each other until far later anther thing to point out is that Yule was a period of Mid-Winter (more synonymous with a Month rather than a Festivity) rather than a specifically dated festival like Christmas..the festival and its observances are largely a product of Neopaganism ...so another misconception.
Christianity, like almost all beliefs systems assimilated the former beliefs of its converts into its traditions...this is a cultural impact common in human society. The twelve days of Christmas tradition for example is a product of the assimilation of Yule on,y seen in Western Christian tradition and not before the 15th Century. In fact many traditions are Neopagan, having been reintroduced and reinvented in the 18-19th Centuries when paganism was popularised in Victorian Society and only then popularised at Christmas...
Last edited:
