Anything happen with Mantle yet?

[shankly1985]

It's likely to be buggy from the off. What they're attempting to do has not been attempted in a long time. I think you'll need to be patient but the gains are likely to be sizeable.

Would guess that if CPU optimisation is present from day 1 then multi-GPU set up's might be able to escape the CPU bottleneck issues.

If they been working on it from early bf4 development then they have had plenty of time to sort out any issue.
I would be very surprised is this didn't work great day one giving the time they have had.

See 8Pack comment = Me can not wait.

 

[DarrenM343]

So Mantle's first outing is going to be in BF4 which is known to be buggy? And who's going to hook up Mantle into it,the same devs ? That's not a good sign and whatever the result the competition could point out valid concerns.

 

[Mei]

haha why you think his comment had anything to do with bf4

i think AMD should try hire him tho, his 10 words in text better advert than 3 of their guys sipping water on stage for an hour

crazy water sippers!

 

[Jono8]

In before we find out that the mantle "feature" in BF4 is the increased foliage that setting it to medium from ultra brings....

There must be something fishy going on with that seen as they haven't fixed that in the latest update (as it would presumably be a very easy thing to fix....)

 

[Jono8]

So Mantle's first outing is going to be in BF4 which is known to be buggy? And who's going to hook up Mantle into it,the same devs ? That's not a good sign and whatever the result the competition could point out valid concerns.

It will be great, it means the "battlefield 4 has stopped working" box will render at 10% more frames per second. I am excited.

 

[pgi947]

If they been working on it from early bf4 development then they have had plenty of time to sort out any issue.
I would be very surprised is this didn't work great day one giving the time they have had.

See 8Pack comment = Me can not wait.

They've been working on the dx version even longer and frostbite in general for years, hasn't stopped them making a complete mess of it.

If dice cant figure out stability on an api that's been around years I'm sceptical they'll crack an api that's only months old at the first attempt.

 

[elmuzzy66.]

Have to say performance is by far the least of the problems with BF4 - neither of my main setups are even remotely challenged CPU wise in any scenario upto a single 780ti in the game and once core parking is disabled any semi decent i7 4 core / 8 thread will ace it even without Windows 8.1. The game itself however is horrendously rushed and buggy and full of issues that they still don't seem to have learnt from or fixed from the previous ~4 games

+1 yep most of the bugs issues are very similar to problems in other games.

 

[drunkenmaster]

They've been working on the dx version even longer and frostbite in general for years, hasn't stopped them making a complete mess of it.

If dice cant figure out stability on an api that's been around years I'm sceptical they'll crack an api that's only months old at the first attempt.

While this is true to a degree, and keep in mind I'm not saying Mantle is the end of all bugs, it's possible that Mantle is much simpler to get working sans bugs, because DX is a massive pile of complex turd, where drivers, dx, updates to all, and the game have to do a bunch of work arounds to get them all working correctly.

Mantle driver is simple without doing an awful lot, it's down to the game. When only trying to solve bugs that can come from one source it IS easier to get right. That doesn't mean DICE will.


The timing of Mantle releases, and the quality has precisely NOTHING to do with how good or useful Mantle is.

Whether a game is good, or crap, buggy, or flawless, 30% faster is 30% faster, 3% faster is 3% faster, that's it. Expecting huge changes and bug fixes because of an API, and frankly misunderstanding and misstating things isn't helping.

Dice have NOT worked with mantle for ages and it wasn't a part of the original engine. Dice got a release quality build 2 months before their talks at APU 13, as did Oxide, Dice and other dev's worked with AMD, but this is mostly on the spec of it. Any software design starts with going to the people using the software and asking them what they want in it, then they go away and figure out how to implement it based on these design features. Many things change, but AMD wrote and made Mantle and Dice got it now 2.5-3 months ago now.

Look at a console on release vs a console 8 years later, night and day, they use 100% power available to them in both cases. This is hardware experience, software experience, api experience, and generally people getting better at their jobs over time. As in any other job, you learn things and get better at doing whatever it is you do. Mantle is new, and it's pretty much the only ever attempt at a low level API on an open platform with chips this complex. Glide may have conceptually done the same thing, low level API... but chips then vs today, night and day, completely night and day. That is just the chips, games are exponentially more complex now as well as the hardware.

The consoles, while low level, are a very set platform with no scaling to think about at all, no different hardware, nothing. Expecting perfection from Mantle out of the gate when no other API has ever done such a thing, no simpler API has ever done it, and everything is more complex now... is just ridiculous.

I'm not saying Mantle will be terrible at first, but expecting the impossible based on no history of this being possible is nothing short of ridiculous.

The only thing that matters, is not launch dates, nor quality of games, but if dev's like using it, and if it enables the dev's to do more with the same hardware, if yes to one or both of those, win, if neither of those, lose.

 

[gpuerrilla]

Guys a lot is happening with this!!! The performance is nothing short of amazing. Watch this space!!

haha why you think his comment had anything to do with bf4

8 Pack can you confirm you do mean mantle?

 

[andybird123]

my potential problem with BF4 specifically and in relation to mantle is that I can run Crysis at 7680x1440 on near max settings (AA on one of the lesser settings) and get pretty constant 60fps with 70-80% GPU usage and 60-70% CPU usage... when something "big" happens I get CPU and GPU usage near 100% and a small dip in FPS

with DX BF4 I get 50% CPU usage and 60% GPU usage with 60fps but then when something big happens I get no more usage but a much bigger dip in FPS

so yeah, great, mantle might mean that AMD users get better frame rates and better utilisation of their hardware, but as Crysis 3 shows, this can be achieved on DX as well... it amounts to a conscious choice by DICE to be half arsed and leave 60+% of GPU buyers with a 2nd rate experience

 

[Jono8]

I genuinely hope this is amazing and we get PC performance in games skyrocketing. if that is the case my graphics card purchase for next year when 20nm comes out will be AMD.

However, i will remain massively skeptical until i see some concrete benchmarks and reviews of mantle. As a long time PC gamer i have been burnt too many times by companies claiming a new technology or API will bring massive performance gains.... only for it to be a colossal disappointment.

 

[Scramz]

I heard AMD are releasing BF4 mantle with the non ref cards... Any light on this?

 

[shankly1985]

They've been working on the dx version even longer and frostbite in general for years, hasn't stopped them making a complete mess of it.

If dice cant figure out stability on an api that's been around years I'm sceptical they'll crack an api that's only months old at the first attempt.

While this is true, its also DX that needs to work with all System configurations and my bet is most people who been crashing seem to be running Nvidia GPU's?

While Mantle will be made for 7000's series and R2 series thats much less systems they need to think about to get this working well. Similar to how all ps4's hardware is the same.

Like I said I would be very surprised if Mantle didn't work perfect from release.

 

[flopper]

tbh I play with a big player base on Battlefield and the crashing isn't something I hear them complain about. Excluding the server crashing first two weeks.
I hear more talk about Hitreg than anything else, another thing I dont find much wrong with it apart from getting shoot when getting into cover.

Maybe I just lucky.

The forums will always show people having issue's at the end of the day people who have issue's complain, them who dont have issue's dont.

gameplay mechanics with the hitbox/latency/netcode and how the avatar cant move to the side to avoid fire all make the game call of duty cloned.
just not battlefield.

and Mantle wont save BF4.
it might save amd tho

 

[shankly1985]

gameplay mechanics with the hitbox/latency/netcode and how the avatar cant move to the side to avoid fire all make the game call of duty cloned.
just not battlefield.

and Mantle wont save BF4.
it might save amd tho

Having none of the issue's you mentioned

Hitbox and Latency seem fine to me I do play on 0% smooth factor though. Call of Duty has 64 players? and Tanks, Jets etc?? Never knew might have to play it last time I seen they were just solid objects.

 

[gpuerrilla]

Having none of the issue's you mentioned

Hitbox and Latency seem fine to me I do play on 0% smooth factor though. Call of Duty has 64 players? and Tanks, Jets etc?? Never knew might have to play it last time I seen they were just solid objects.

As we discussed in the BF4 thread.. see plenty of people with issues - you are just lucky or not revealing any crashes.

 

[shankly1985]

As we discussed in the BF4 thread.. see plenty of people with issues - you are just lucky or not revealing any crashes.

Used to just get servers crashes I have my Windows log files has proof.

Why would I lie about crashing? and why would I support a game if it was crashing all the time? wound't I want it fixing also?

 

[gpuerrilla]

Used to just get servers crashes I have my Windows log files has proof.

Why would I lie about crashing? and why would I support a game if it was crashing all the time? wound't I want it fixing also?

Absolutely. But denying there are no issues or your select group you play with have none is kind of not acknowledging there IS a problem.

You could probably play with more people (possibly better too) if their machines wernt crashing, dropping, bf4.exe has stopped working etc

 

[shankly1985]

Absolutely. But denying there are no issues or your select group you play with have none is kind of not acknowledging there IS a problem.

You could probably play with more people (possibly better too) if their machines wernt crashing, dropping, bf4.exe has stopped working etc

With NWO they is a following of 100+ active players, how much more do we need?

When playing and in TS it's not something I hear people complain about "I Just Crashed" I hear more complaints about getting shot round cover than anything else or getting stuck and not jumping over a twig

 

[Havana_UK]

The Mantle patch for BF4 is coming very soon but like a numpty I didn't write the date down and I can't exactly remember what was said.

Performance gains are allegedly very large (think generational change large).