Girlfriend is religious, I'm atheist.. Can this work?

Estebanrey and ignorance generally go together in these sort of threads.

Again, before accusing me of ignorance by the back door, please show me where i was wrong in suggesting that the Bible tells a story where God asks a man to kill his own son.

Unless you can prove I've made that up and it doesn't appear in the Bible you are in no position to claim ignorance on my part.
 
There is no point in faking a belief. If you're faith is that of atheism then let it be that - it is unfair for anyone to force you or another person to believe in something they are not willing to believe in.

You do not have to have Christian beliefs or be religious to bring up children with Christian values (i.e. being a good human being, i.e. compassionate, honest, empathic, fair, and full of love rather than hate, etc...). If you don't want to call them Christian values, call them "good moral values" whatever makes you comfortable.

IF you can bring up a child like that then there's no issue, however, you should not ban or block your other half from raising the child with a faith that is important to her. If the child chooses to renounce his/her faith as they grow up it becomes their choice.

There is nothing wrong with offering a child a religious upbringing. Just as there is no harm in not giving them a religious upbringing. However, it is unfair to offer them only an atheistic view. IF you are going to be conflicted about faith, at least offer them an Agnostic approach, letting them accept some spirituality if they feel it is for them, as well as a good balance to make a decision for themselves.

It could be that actually the fact that you are diametrically opposed in your beliefs could offer your child a more balanced understanding, as long as you let them go to church, as well as listen to your atheistic opinions and experience both sides of the coin.

Just please don't let the child become the argument on which you fight - it's not fair to anyone.

Obviously I'm talking hypothetically since you're talking about the future of potentially having children together.
 
Oh the old "if I agree with it, the Bible is literally true but if I don't then it's a metaphor" argument.

Did God ask Abraham to sacrifice his own son, yes or no?

What.

My answer? I don't know. Why?

tl;dr Couldn't care less

long version
- Well, does God exist? (if yes, go to next question)
- Did Abraham exist? (if yes, go to next question)
- Does God speak to humans? (if yes, go to next question)
- Will god tell someone to kill his own son? (if yes, go to next question)
- Did he actually want him to kill him? (if yes, go to next question)
- He did stop him just before killing him.... (if yes, go to next question)
- Did he feel guilty and stop him? Or did he want to get something else from this? (if yes, go to next question)
- But he is God, can he feel guilty?

You see, there is no answer. I don't know. You don't know. I think its quite obvious that since he didn't go through with he, he doesn't actually want him to kill his son.... if the story is true.

Last post today, going to sleep. Some posts (the majority) were quite good, but some where ignorant. I feel people (mostly on this forum) can think, but the combination of 'cba writing a long post' and 'I'm gonna look cool' take over.

Personally, I don't believe in a lot that the church says, except its morals. OP needs to get things straight way before planning for a baby.

EDIT:

Freefaller got it ALL right for me. I will not elaborate on it because he gave the perfect response.

What I will address is a small thing, the sex before marriage one. Just because she doesn't agree with one/a few rules, it doesn't make her a totally bad christian, who is faking a belief. When you vote in a n election, you don't agree with 100% of the things the political party says. There are a few niggles that you don't agree on, but you vote for the party anyway.

Your country has laws. One of them is no drinking under 18(for example, I know it depends on country). Another is no smoking under 18. Another is no sex under 18. Did you follow ALL these? If you broke one law, does that make you a totally bad person, who deserves jail time?

When driving, do you abide by all the laws? Do you look through ALL the blindspots? (Getting tired now) Did you follow all the rules? You broke 1/a few rules. It doesn't make you a totally bad person. She knows its against her faith, but decides that she can still be a good catholic despite that.
 
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I'm assuming you don't believe in the bible. But you seem to believe in the 'negative' things there are in the bible.

Parables. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable

Surely the fact that there's so much "negative" stuff in the bible (endorsing slavery, genocide, torture, murder, bigotry...), means you shouldn't take the rest of it seriously? By all means, cherry pick your morals from the bible. Pick out the good bits and ignore the bad. But at least admit that's what you're doing. And at least acknowledge that if you have to cherry pick like that, you shouldn't hold the bible in particularly high esteem?
 
Um no, atheism is an absence of faith.

I see it as a belief in the concept of disbelief towards deity. It's still a belief structure. You believe there is no God, or you deny all existence of any form of religion.

You may disagree, but hardline atheists are just as extreme and blind as evangelistic Jehovah Witnesses. Open mindedness is far more natural behaviour in my opinion. Agnosticism is far more rational a stand point, and far less myopic.
 
What.

My answer? I don't know. Why?

You don't know? And yet I'm the ignorant one? :confused:

I'll give you a clue, the answer is yes, he did.

long version
- Well, does God exist? (if yes, go to next question)
- Did Abraham exist? (if yes, go to next question)
- Does God speak to humans? (if yes, go to next question)
- Will god tell someone to kill his own son? (if yes, go to next question)
- Did he actually want him to kill him? (if yes, go to next question)
- He did stop him just before killing him.... (if yes, go to next question)
- Did he feel guilty and stop him? Or did he want to get something else from this? (if yes, go to next question)
- But he is God, can he feel guilty?

You see, there is no answer. I don't know. You don't know. I think its quite obvious that since he didn't go through with he, he doesn't actually want him to kill his son.... if the story is true.

That's not the point though, the point is Abraham was so brainwashed into believing God trumped everything that he was prepared to do so. The correct answer from Abraham should have been "my God would never ask such a thing and therefore you are demon sent to test me" and had that been the Biblical story then there would have been a morsel of morality to the story. However, as it stands it tells Christians they should obey God at all times (including the sacrificing of their children should he so ask) and then just hope God changes his mind. What kind of morality is that?

Personally, I don't believe in a lot that the church says, except its morals.

Because molesting choir boys and encouraging millions of AIDs infected Africans to not use condoms is highly moral?
 
Surely the fact that there's so much "negative" stuff in the bible (endorsing slavery, genocide, torture, murder, bigotry...), means you shouldn't take the rest of it seriously? By all means, cherry pick your morals from the bible. Pick out the good bits and ignore the bad. But at least admit that's what you're doing. And at least acknowledge that if you have to cherry pick like that, you shouldn't hold the bible in particularly high esteem?

I didn't take my morals from the bible. I took them from my brain. But then co-incide with (some) what the church says.

And I do not hold the bible in high regard. :D:D I'm just presenting the other side of the argument.

EDIT:
You don't know? And yet I'm the ignorant one?

I'll give you a clue, the answer is yes, he did.

That's not the point though, the point is Abraham was so brainwashed into believing God trumped everything that he was prepared to do so. The correct answer from Abraham should have been "my God would never ask such a thing and therefore you are demon sent to test me" and had that been the Biblical story then there would have been a morsel of morality to the story. However, as it stands it tells Christians they should obey God at all times (including the sacrificing of their children should he so ask) and then just hope God changes his mind. What kind of morality is that?

Because molesting choir boys and encouraging millions of AIDs infected Africans to not use condoms is highly moral?

Ah, so you know what happened based on the fact that the bible says so? But you don't believe in the bible, so you don't believe this argument either.

Then again, if you certainly know what happened, can I ask you about stuff that happened 2000 years ago, and you can answer me?

Who said molesting a choir boy is good?! He OBVIOUSLY has his MORALS ****ed up, as one of my morals is not taking advantage of young people. And even more so, not involving them in anything sexual at such a young age.

ALSO, CAN WE GET BACK ON TOPIC PLEASE. Enough discussing if the church is good/bad, and more at the op.
 
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Tricky one & it's definitely something you need to discuss before even venturing into the baby-making shenanigans that's for sure.

Personally, a persons belief or faith in something should not hinder a relationship, but that seldom happens.

All I can see is problem down the road for you both and in reality having a baby, with this potential storm of nuclear proportions hanging around is not good. Under no circumstances should you change your view to appease someone else, that can only happen if you want it, not at the whim or request of another.

Talk lots and talk even more.... plus 2 years is too short a time to think about becoming parents, you're in the infancy of your relationship, so let that grow before you embroil an embryo :P
 
Ah, so you know what happened based on the fact that the bible says so? But you don't believe in the bible, so you don't believe this argument either.

Eh? No I don't "believe" in the Bible in the sense that I don't think it is the word of God but rather a collection of stories designed to encourage the people of that day to act within the moral framework of that society in a carrot (heaven/God will be pleased) and stick (hell/God will be angry) system.

But what you seem to be missing is I am not the one making the claim, the OP's girlfriend is. So if SHE reads and accepts the Bible's teachings, why is it "ignorant" to ask her questions that test her faith in the claims SHE believes in?

Then again, if you certainly know what happened, can I ask you about stuff that happened 2000 years ago, and you can answer me?

Depends on the question really, but if you're making the "you weren't there so can't even begin to ascertain anything about it" argument that is fairly easy to rebuff.
 
Personally, I'd find it difficult to be in a relationship with someone who was religious, and certainly wouldn't like my children growing up religious.

Having said that, I was raised as a Christian. I didn't go to church every week, but went relatively often. I went to this kind of Sunday school (except it was every Tuesday) and have always had a very "Christian" attitude towards other people, of giving and generosity etc.

I would absolutely allow my children to make a choice. I expect they'd have excess exposure to secularity or anti-religious statements in my house, but I'd never want to force that on them. I'd rather they learn for themselves through debating with me or whatever, or asking me questions.

I'm not sure that religion and science can ever be entirely reconciled, and I'd like to think the natural conclusion that most people would come to is that there is no God, but I know that's not the case.

Anyway, free choice! Just don't let them get blasted with secularism and religion - find a balance.
 
Again, before accusing me of ignorance by the back door, please show me where i was wrong in suggesting that the Bible tells a story where God asks a man to kill his own son.

Unless you can prove I've made that up and it doesn't appear in the Bible you
are in no position to claim ignorance on my part.

Yep you are right, that story is in the bible. Do you want a medal? I don't see what point you are trying to make with it.

Its not as if we see thousands of people sacrificing their firstborn sons in the name of their religion, and I think even the halfwit stoner in my RE class managed to figure out the point of that particular story, even if he did not believe in it. Yet you imply that the OP's Mrs would try and sacrifice their child? Come on even for your fundamentalist atheist views that's a little tenuous.

You always start banging on about proof in these sorts of threads too. The whole point of religion is that people who ascribe to a religious belief system do so on faith and to have faith as far as I understand it you don't need proof.

What you are unable or unwilling get you head around is that believing in something without proof is ok. Just because someone doesn't feel the need to be able to prove every single thing in the world around them shouldn't get you so worked up. Its their choice, not yours and I don't see anything wrong with that.

Notice here I am talking about choice. Despite my own lack of faith I think religion is perfectly ok to be taught as long as the choice to believe or not, a very personal choice, is given. Pressure to decide one way or the other is counterproductive. I am glad I was brought up with that choice because it taught me that religion is not something to fear or run away from despite it not being something I ascribe to.

I don't know whether this is a bid to try to further rationalise the world around you, a way to rage against the machine or whatever but for some reason every time this type of thread crops up, you seem desperate to disprove, shout down and generally belittle people who do have faith.

I was not commenting on your ignorance of the bible or any other religious texts, you can read and its not as if a book published in 484 languages is hard to find. It is this superior and scornful tone with which you use to try and belittle others in this sort of thread which displays your ignorance.

/Salsa
 
Yep you are right, that story is in the bible. Do you want a medal? I don't see what point you are trying to make with it.

You sub-accused me of ignorance after I made claim that you now admit is true. That is the exact opposite of ignorance and that is the point I'm trying to make.

Its not as if we see thousands of people sacrificing their firstborn sons in the name of their religion, and I think even the halfwit stoner in my RE class managed to figure out the point of that particular story, even if he did not believe in it. Yet you imply that the OP's Mrs would try and sacrifice their child? Come on even for your fundamentalist atheist views that's a little tenuous.

I implied nothing about the OP's girlfriend. If I had I wouldn't have offered advice based on the two choices she could make, I would have assumed her answer.

As I said above, please tell me the moral that even a 'halfwit stoner' can see in that story, because all I see is that if God asks you to do something you should follow it diligently. There really is no other moral to that story other than God is **** that enjoys watching people suffer with the dilemma of having to murder their own flesh and blood until he decides to tell them it's all a big joke.

You always start banging on about proof in these sorts of threads too. The whole point of religion is that people who ascribe to a religious belief system do so on faith and to have faith as far as I understand it you don't need proof.

Where have I asked for proof in this thread (other than proof than I am lying).

What you are unable or unwilling get you head around is that believing in something without proof is ok.

That is subjective. However I'd like to clarify, believing in something for which you have absolute no credible evidence for is not "OK" in the sense it isn't the best academic or philosophical position. It's not about favouring or believing in nothing until you absolute proof, but rather favouring the most likely position until you do.
 
Amazing. Despite completely missing, or ignoring, my point, you proved it wonderfully.

Thanks. :)

You can go back to your religion bashing now, it was boring the first time the topic came up and it is even more so the 100th time around. Dress it up with all the fancy words and structured arguments you like it still boils down to you desperately yearning to shoot down anyone who thinks differently to you by beating over the same ground time and time again. Almost religious in your single mindedness which I guess is ironic given your stance.

/Salsa
 
Amazing. Despite completely missing, or ignoring, my point, you proved it wonderfully.

Thanks. :)

You can go back to your religion bashing now, it was boring the first time the topic came up and it is even more so the 100th time around. Dress it up with all the fancy words and structured arguments you like it still boils down to you desperately yearning to shoot down anyone who thinks differently to you by beating over the same ground time and time again. Almost religious in your single mindedness which I guess is ironic given your stance.

/Salsa

You are making a point which is irrelevant to the thread. My position on people's belief is neither here nor there when it comes to the question I posed for the OP for his other half.

I too agree that people should be free to subscribe to whichever worldview they choose, however where we differ is I don't believe it is "ignorant" to question those views or to test just how much faith people actually have in their chosen belief system.
 
I think you can make it work depending on two factors.

A) She doesn't expect you to attend church... at all. Even when you visit her family e.g christmas, or after you have children and she wishes them to attend. This will be very difficult in practice, as the children will ask why you don't go, and people at the church will do the same. It will cause a lot of friction.

B) She doesn't mind you presenting your beliefs (or lack of) to your children once they are old enough to understand. This will also be very difficult, especially if they attend a denominational school.

Lastly, what ever you agree now will change once you have children ;)

I'm not religious, I was raised largely without religion, I've not been baptised, both my parents were agnostic. My wife isn't particularly religious either (we've never attended church). However, we are expecting a child next year, and despite her agreeing years ago that our children wouldn't be baptised, she's now saying she'd like to do so. Mainly because it's tradition, which I thinks the worst reason possible.

Women :rolleyes:
 
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I'm completely with estebanrey on this one - the Abraham story is warped. It's just downright mean, you can't dress it up as anything else. "Be afraid" is the only message anyone can sensibly draw from it.

I think most modern Christians ignore these parts of the bible, which is fine. Take what you like, leave what you don't, that's cool. But don't say something so obviously black is white, because it destroys all credibility in anything else you might say.
 
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