Perhaps I should rephrase. I wasn't referring to the actual powers of the Church of England or attempting to suggest that it is already so powerful that the only way it could be more so would be for the UK to become a theocracy - that would indeed be a bit ridiculous. Rather, in response to the claim that "There is no state religion" I was postulating that it is still about as official as you can get. If anyone is interested perhaps they could do the research to find out how many other countries have the same level of official links between church, head of state and parliament.
M&S have dropped a clanger
- Thread starter Fuzz
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Perhaps I should rephrase. I wasn't referring to the actual powers of the Church of England or attempting to suggest that it is already so powerful that the only way it could be more so would be for the UK to become a theocracy - that would indeed be a bit ridiculous. Rather, in response to the claim that "There is no state religion" I was postulating that it is still about as official as you can get. If anyone is interested perhaps they could do the research to find out how many other countries have the same level of official links between church, head of state and parliament.
Ah I see. Well on that case it's just poor work ethic. Though one shouldn't paint a whole community with the same brush. It was just that individual and just shows how this topic has spiralled out of control.
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Associate
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As the years roll on i have to admit i am getting a bit fed up/bored of Muslims and the way this country backs down to them.
You are extrapolating from the original intent into illogical fantasy.
The Jewish/Islamic rules on pork were just tradition based on the parasites in pork (at the time), it's nothing mystical and it was incorporated into the religion as "a good idea", along with all the hand washing and bum wiping.
Same with wine, you don't want people getting drunk and fornicating with the goat herd. That is it, don't drink alcohol, there is nothing mystical involved.
To then extrapolate from that and pretend that if you step into a puddle of wine then the sky pixie is going to get mad is just trying to make 2+2 = 5.
You've got yourself so wound up in the wording that you have forgotten these are very simple commandments.
Don't eat pork, it's got parasites, don't get drunk. End of.
Who fed you that lie?
This country (historically) used the population of other countries to fight its wars and be a cheap source of labour, all of which was determined by the government of the day. To pretend the UK population welcomed all this when they never had a say so in the matter is a dribbling liberal fantasy.
From day one other races were mistrusted and other faiths were only patronisingly indulged so long as the dominant Christian faith was not affected.
The fact that this affects nobody isn't what is being discussed, the issue is whether religion should be made allowances for in the workplace
No it hasn't,
staff can still opt out of any duties that conflict with their religious beliefs (so long as M&S agree at the time).
All they have promised is that staff with an issue will not be put into that position again, which was still the intention at the time anyway, the Store Manager just messed up.
not necessarily... as people could then refuse parts of their roles at will - service is already disrupted to some extend by the religious allowances but if you only allow it for some it is perhaps manageable (yet unfair) - you need staff to work weekends but *anyone* could potentially have an excuse not to - allowing one special group the right to refuse because its the Sabbath can probably be covered by others picking up the slack... though it does mean others are collectively more likely to then work Saturdays..
Potentially any product could be boycotted at will by any staff member... whether people refuse to deal with pork, beef, alcohol on religious grounds or people just decide a particular company or country's produce is 'unethical'. An environmentalist gets a job in a BP garage but only wants to sell the stuff in the shop and won't deal with fuel purchases?
It doesn't require a proof... its been stated by M&S in articles already quoted in this thread re: their religious allowances.
Still trying to figure out why it requires 15 pages of this thread for people to understand its not hard to manage queues.
Is it a lack of having to be patient at a till?
or is it a lack of tolerance towards islam overall - I suspect the latter, as does this article writer:
http://www.newstatesman.com/religio...uslim-staff-policy-shows-islamophobia-problem
This thread is proof that its the latter as most of the comments here are aimed at muslims in particular, rather than at the actual religious tolerance policy which covers exceptions for all faiths.
Is it a lack of having to be patient at a till?
or is it a lack of tolerance towards islam overall - I suspect the latter, as does this article writer:
http://www.newstatesman.com/religio...uslim-staff-policy-shows-islamophobia-problem
This thread is proof that its the latter as most of the comments here are aimed at muslims in particular, rather than at the actual religious tolerance policy which covers exceptions for all faiths.
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Zoomee,
Some could argue against your statement there due to the fact that for something to be a phobia it generally has to be irrational. Or at least unfounded.
Sadly I'd argue that it's not. Therefore in this country there is no such thing as Islamophobia - more a suspicion based upon previous national experience.
Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying they're the only group of people the world over who could make people nervous - they're not, but that people have a reason to be suspicious.
Some could argue against your statement there due to the fact that for something to be a phobia it generally has to be irrational. Or at least unfounded.
Sadly I'd argue that it's not. Therefore in this country there is no such thing as Islamophobia - more a suspicion based upon previous national experience.
Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying they're the only group of people the world over who could make people nervous - they're not, but that people have a reason to be suspicious.
Caporegime
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I'd argue the problem is that we have certain 'special needs' groups in the country who think it is acceptable to take job xyz and then claim they can't fulfil job xyz due to their special needs, and think that is acceptable behaviour. ..
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Next it will be somebody refusing to sell a customer food because they're too fat.
Another journalist who thinks these issues are going to magically resolve themselves with no effort from Muslims required 
This country has also historically been suspicious of Catholics who likewise wanted to blow us up for not too dissimilar reasons, this feeling possibly continues today as the church drags it feet over paedophile priests, and like muslims appears to hope that if they say nothing and do nothing the problem will also magically resolve itself.
Christianity recognised that it's faith was not perfect and reordered it to make it accessible and relevant. Islam is effectively still stuck in the age where people needed to be able to read Latin to participate.
Such continuing arrogance about the perfection of Islam when it's clearly as retarded as a bag of scientologists is really setting the stage for this continued mistrust of Islam. Not to mention the new generation of Islamists who have yet to come out of the woodwork.
Meanwhile all Muslims have to do is shout racism or islamaphobia and hope we back down from voicing any criticism over their ridiculous behaviour, such craven duplicity constantly supported by liberal fascists who are so desperate to support some supposedly hard done by group, is witness to how much they have been suckered by such a self absorbed religion.
This country has also historically been suspicious of Catholics who likewise wanted to blow us up for not too dissimilar reasons, this feeling possibly continues today as the church drags it feet over paedophile priests, and like muslims appears to hope that if they say nothing and do nothing the problem will also magically resolve itself.
Christianity recognised that it's faith was not perfect and reordered it to make it accessible and relevant. Islam is effectively still stuck in the age where people needed to be able to read Latin to participate.
Such continuing arrogance about the perfection of Islam when it's clearly as retarded as a bag of scientologists is really setting the stage for this continued mistrust of Islam. Not to mention the new generation of Islamists who have yet to come out of the woodwork.
Meanwhile all Muslims have to do is shout racism or islamaphobia and hope we back down from voicing any criticism over their ridiculous behaviour, such craven duplicity constantly supported by liberal fascists who are so desperate to support some supposedly hard done by group, is witness to how much they have been suckered by such a self absorbed religion.
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Associate
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Personally i just think its hypocritical that you will work for a company that advertises sells and profits from alcohol but you won't serve it to people, If your religion is that important to you why would you work for a company that profits from the sales of alcohol anyway?
I have no problem if muslim people want to open their own shop and not want to sell alcohol or pork and live their lives according to their own beliefs, im totally cool with that more power to them i fully respect that they are entitled to believe what they want even if i disagree., but don't work for a company that profits from selling items that are apparently totally against your religion. Thats like working for a pedo and saying its ok for him to touch kids at work but i refuse to do it.
I have no problem if muslim people want to open their own shop and not want to sell alcohol or pork and live their lives according to their own beliefs, im totally cool with that more power to them i fully respect that they are entitled to believe what they want even if i disagree., but don't work for a company that profits from selling items that are apparently totally against your religion. Thats like working for a pedo and saying its ok for him to touch kids at work but i refuse to do it.
Another journalist who thinks these issues are going to magically resolve themselves with no effort from Muslims required
This country has also historically been suspicious of Catholics who likewise wanted to blow us up for not too dissimilar reasons, this feeling possibly continues today as the church drags it feet over paedophile priests, and like muslims appears to hope that if they say nothing and do nothing the problem will also magically resolve itself.
Christianity recognised that it's faith was not perfect and reordered it to make it accessible and relevant. Islam is effectively still stuck in the age where people needed to be able to read Latin to participate.
Such continuing arrogance about the perfection of Islam when it's clearly as retarded as a bag of scientologists is really setting the stage for this continued mistrust of Islam. Not to mention the new generation of Islamists who have yet to come out of the woodwork.
Meanwhile all Muslims have to do is shout racism or islamaphobia and hope we back down from voicing any criticism over their ridiculous behaviour, such craven duplicity constantly supported by liberal fascists who are so desperate to support some supposedly hard done by group, is witness to how much they have been suckered by such a self absorbed religion.
The truth is your knowledge of Islam is based on articles from the daily hate. The examples of the "barbaric" nature of Islam that you've been spouting are examples of the extremists only - the acts you mentioned earlier on in this thread carries out by al qaedi and extremists. These pests that are a problem to Muslims (if you did talk to these "Lego" people) as much as they are to Britain as whole.
And in reply to your earlier post. Yes, I am totally aware of our colonial background and continued interference in other countries for our personal interests. I was merely trying to promote some level of dicussion ad mutual respect. Amusingly, you're able to identify when propaganda is being used in the media yet unable to realise that you have fallen into believing everything that you are told about Islam by said resources. It's an insult to your intelligence.
I suggest perhaps engaging with these "lunatic" Muslims and you might be shocked how normal these people are and how they struggle with dealing with these extremists themselves. But of course you know better, you know the entirety of Islam inside out and no one can persuade you otherwise. Islam or anyother religion for that matter.
The article posted earlier about islamaphobia is bang on and your posts have demonstrated just that. A phobia.
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Usury is also against Islam, but M&S has a credit card which charges interest charges. Any Muslim who works for M&S is complicit in usury and highly immoral according to their religion.
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Its also hypocritical to politely say i don't want to serve your for your alcohol and pork but please feel free to go to check out number 2 and have a good day. Does simply passing the buck in Islam get you off the hook from going to hell or something? Even though i don't have a problem with alcohol i would have so much more respect for them if they simply refused to work for such company's full stop, take a proper stance if that's what you truly believe, don't just pass the buck to somebody else because that not solving your so called problem of people using alcohol.
My biggest problem is with the management at that particular store. If other Muslim employees have sold alcohol without prior issue, then this employee should have been taken to one side and had this clearly explained to them. I would sack them for bringing the company's name into disrepute.
And I agree with that. What I don't agree with is the islamic faith being singled out when this policy covers all faiths and tolerance towards them ALL if required, in various ways. I've already pointed out the this same M&S policy makes allowances for requirements of other faiths too, but some people here are quick to jump on the anti-islamic bandwagon - a problem I've highlighted in the article I've linked above.
Your absolutely right mate. There's loads of this sort of contradiction in many faiths including the christian one - for example -
Thou shalt not eat the flesh of swine, http://www.openbible.info/topics/swine
Thou shalt not be a drunkard http://www.openbible.info/topics/drunkards
Usury is also forbidden in Christianity http://www.openbible.info/topics/usury
http://www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,5753,-1030,00.html
Bible words which make it pretty clear that most claiming to be 'Christian' aren't actually following the bible or 'jesus' for example. The same applies to these so called 'muslims' - quick to wear the label but underneath nothing has changed and hypocritical.
My point is it's not just a problem with Islam but most faith groups - unlike what certain individuals here (and most of the media) make out.
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Some interesting links there, i'll give them a proper read later. Ta.
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What happens to bad Muslims when they die? Do they have Hell?
Soldato
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I am not talking about the hypocrisy of the religion, but it's adherents. If a Christian refused to serve you alcohol on the basis of their religion, I'd expect them to be consistent and not get involved with usury. My point is that this person who refused in M&S ought to quit their job if they follow their religion so fundamentally.
So if a Christian refuses to work sundays (as what's allowed in this M&S policy) and then still eats pork / takes usury / gets drunk often - would you expect them to quit their job also? - thought not!
Don't get me wrong - I agree that it's hypocrisy, just pointing out that the same level of hypocrisy investigation/theories should be applied to all faiths and its not right to single out the Islamic faith only. We're all quick to be critical of Islam, what about the other religions......
