Man of Honour
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So should the Great Train Robbers be pardoned because you wouldn't get 25 years for that type of crime now?
Alan Turing Granted Royal Pardon
- Thread starter Burnsy2023
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So should the Great Train Robbers be pardoned because you wouldn't get 25 years for that type of crime now?
I don't have direct knowledge of either activity, so will have to respect your experience used in making that judgement.
I thought it was usually individuals who got pardoned rather than everyone caught by x offence? Presumably a lot of them are either well known or have done something warranting a campaign/support for a pardon for the relevant people to become aware of their case in the first place.
Soldato
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Well pardon the rest of them and move on, i dont care where our great, great, great grandads and uncles liked to stick their wiggley worm.
They'd still be convicted for it, deserved to be convicted for it and the scumbag who died recently never showed any remorse + was a fugitive for most of his life... Hardly deserving of a pardon really...
Interesting post, I think you have a good point.
But what they did is still a crime, yes? Unless society has changed to accept armed robbery as being an acceptable lifestyle choice?
As society evolves some activities become crimes (slavery, drink driving, underage sex) whilst others (homosexuality being the case in point, but you could chuck in things like universal suffrage) get decriminalised and become more broadly accepted.
Not a great comparison.
Theft is still a crime.
Excellent.
Indeed.
Might or popular opinion doesn't make right. Specifically the last part you said, that's the only way things ever do get changed - by direct challenges from the public. If we are too afraid to challenge misuses of power & unjust laws then what's the point of having a democracy at all?.
I don't think anybody is suggesting it's going to change what happened. Is it a publicity stunt to appeal to the moral socially liberally minded? - perhaps.
But public perception & symbols do impact in wider society - these are the things which influence popular culture which in influences future generations moral attitudes, these things impact on society in a very real way.
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Well said, though after the recent Labour government that's probably around 50% of laws now.
As far as I am concerned, when police etc. try to enforce such laws they become fair game for being killed, people have an absolutely right to defend themselves with deadly force against what amounts to abduction.
I can't stand that morally relativistic drivel.
Ethics are timeless and absolute, what is wrong has always been wrong, what is right will always be right, regardless of culture, country, race etc. The opinions of the bigots, lawmakers, religious fanatics and terrorists etc. at that particular point in history are irrelevant.
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Caporegime
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So was he pardoned because he was subsequently found not to be gay or am I missing something?
This is the point I was making..if we pardon one person who committed a crime because that sentence has since become either unpalatable or the actions that were once criminal are now acceptable in society then surely we must pardon everyone who was convicted under such legislation.
Otherwise it is simply an exercise in political backslapping.
He killed himself after being chemically castrated.
Caporegime
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These things happen.
what if in 100 years we decide the age for sexual consent should be lower, would Jimmy Saville be in line for a pardon too?
what if in 100 years we decide the age for sexual consent should be lower, would Jimmy Saville be in line for a pardon too?
Jimmy Saville was not convicted of anything.
Caporegime
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That's true but he still could get a pass he's pretty much been convicted in absenteeism. . He's not the only one either. Any paedophile could be in that category.
Polanski? Teachers convicted of romancing students who can tell?
Polanski? Teachers convicted of romancing students who can tell?
Saville wasn't pumped full of chemicals and hormones, nor was he convicted of anything.
That is what a pardon usually is though... He wasn't pardoned purely because we recognise the 'crime' is now acceptable and not a crime but also because of who he was... Plenty of pardons are like that including where the crime is still a crime etc... The pardons dished out by US Presidents when they leave office don't necessarily have much merit to them... some of them are simply given because the individual concerned was high profile, well connected or even in one case simply donated lots of money.
Caporegime
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Edited ny post but the point remains, changing morality cannot easily be back dated into law on such a basis. The start and end points a precedent like that can set is so open.
No, he was pardoned because the law was deemed to be unjust, and his treatment led to his suicide.
My only issue with this is that the he was pardoned and not all gay men/women found guilty at the time. It makes it look like you have to be a celebrity, or something for it to be acceptable to be gay, which is ludicrous.
Man of Honour
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