CreditCard/Debit Card Increase Pin Number size?

[peterattheboro]

I miss Windows 2000

 

[Skeeter]

The longer and/or more complex a password or pin is the more likely people are to write it down. That is a much bigger security flaw.

This.

There is this misheld view that making things more complex makes them more secure. Its complete rubbish. As soon as you make something so difficult to remember that it must be written down the whole exercise becomes pointless.

I used to work in the NHS and GPs ended up with so many systems with so many passwords and pin codes that you would regularly see all the details on a post it note stuck to their monitor!

 

[Russinating]

Ahh PIN number.

That's like back on Windows 2000, where the splash screen said built on NT technology, which expanded out, just means built on new technology technology

At least it's not a recursive backronym like PHP.

And to the OP, no, no point. Sometimes I really want to tell people what their PIN is when I see them as plain as day mash it into a card machine in front of me at a supermarket.

 

[Pawnless Endgame]

I miss Windows 2000

Yeah 2000 / NT 5 was my fave as well tbh. A few game installers wouldn't work, but you could fool the installers into thinking that the kernel was NT 5.1 (XP) and then they would install ok. Otherwise it was a solid OS.

 

[Skillmister]

Ahh PIN number.

That's like back on Windows 2000, where the splash screen said built on NT technology, which expanded out, just means built on new technology technology

Make sure you enter your pin number at the atm machine!

 

[Haggisman]

Make sure you enter your pin number at the atm machine!

You mean your personal pin number at the automated atm machine?

 

[Jimbeam3678]

I dont think the banks really care about security though, we have the nfc cards which dont require anything at all and are easily hacked.

Really ? I admit I have a professional interest in this I'd love to see the facts on this

Please don't link to dailyfail M&S story as this was patched with a new kernel within a week.

 

[diamount]

It wouldn't make any difference. People who get their stuff compromised don't have it by people guessing their pin.

 

[adolf hamster]

I can remember pi to 46 decimal places, taught by a guy who knew it to 150 and there are folk in this world can remember a lot more than that, but I still would forget my pin if it wasn't a word

 

[mame]

I thought that the card PIN was originally meant to be 5 digits but in testing, they found that females found to too long to remember. No idea where I read that.

 

[Skeeter]

At least it's not a recursive backronym like PHP.

And to the OP, no, no point. Sometimes I really want to tell people what their PIN is when I see them as plain as day mash it into a card machine in front of me at a supermarket.

Chip and pins never been about stopping people looking over your shoulder. Its about theft of cards and details. When you used to have to sign to use a card, everything you needed to use the card was on the back of the card. Pinch a wallet and you had everything you needed to use those cards. Moving to requiring something that exists only in the card owners head meant the opportunities to steal a card you could then use went from "everywhere" to just places you could also see them entering their pin.

I have never written down, or even vocalised my pin. The only people who could possibly know it are the odd few who might have watched me type it in. Meanwhile my signature is everywhere, visible to god knows how many people and available to anyone in possession of any of my bank cards, driving license, etc.

Given the choice, I'd rather secure my money with the code in my head than the short scribble I write down all over the place.

 

[estebanrey]

Chip and pins never been about stopping people looking over your shoulder. Its about theft of cards and details. When you used to have to sign to use a card, everything you needed to use the card was on the back of the card. Pinch a wallet and you had everything you needed to use those cards. Moving to requiring something that exists only in the card owners head meant the opportunities to steal a card you could then use went from "everywhere" to just places you could also see them entering their pin.

I have never written down, or even vocalised my pin. The only people who could possibly know it are the odd few who might have watched me type it in. Meanwhile my signature is everywhere, visible to god knows how many people and available to anyone in possession of any of my bank cards, driving license, etc.

Given the choice, I'd rather secure my money with the code in my head than the short scribble I write down all over the place.

Yes but learning to forge someone's signature takes time, seeing someone enter their PIN means you instantly have the ability to take money form their card. So let's say someone has just seen you at the cash point and memorised your PIN. All they have to is knock you over the head and they can go off and spend a fair amount before you's even have the chance to cancel it. With a signature they'd have to hope yours was easy or they were master caligraphers who could making convicning forgeries with no practice.

There is also another massive loop hole that has been opened with chip and PIN that didn't exist before which is someone actually vaerifying teh card itself. Before, the retail worker would make basic checks on the card like the name. With Chip & PIN I (a white male) could go around with Mrs Abdul Mohammad's credit card and spend away as long as I know the PIN because you don't hand it over anymore.

 

[Haggisman]

Yes but learning to forge someone's signature takes time, seeing someone enter their PIN means you instantly have the ability to take money form their card. So let's say someone has just seen you at the cash point and memorised your PIN. All they have to is knock you over the head and they can go off and spend a fair amount before you's even have the chance to cancel it. With a signature they'd have to hope yours was easy or they were master caligraphers who could making convicning forgeries with no practice.

There is also another massive loop hole that has been opened with chip and PIN that didn't exist before which is someone actually vaerifying teh card itself. Before, the retail worker would make basic checks on the card like the name. With Chip & PIN I (a white male) could go around with Mrs Abdul Mohammad's credit card and spend away as long as I know the PIN because you don't hand it over anymore.

So make sure you cover your pin when entering it.

No system is ever going to be 100% theft/fraud proof, but as skeeter posted, a secret code is far better than an easily available scribble (and let's be honest, a) whose signature looks exactly the same each time, and b) how many shop assistants properly checked signatures, or would even be able to spot a forged one?)

 

[Vanilla]

Yes but learning to forge someone's signature takes time, seeing someone enter their PIN means you instantly have the ability to take money form their card. So let's say someone has just seen you at the cash point and memorised your PIN. All they have to is knock you over the head and they can go off and spend a fair amount before you's even have the chance to cancel it. With a signature they'd have to hope yours was easy or they were master caligraphers who could making convicning forgeries with no practice.

No one checks signatures. I didn't 14 years ago when I worked checkouts and people don't today.

I've used friends cards tens of times and never bother getting the signature right beyond the general squiggle.

All this talk of learning and master forgery is pap. Getting a card before pin used to be instant use, the pin has stopped that.

 

[Lunatic Dreyfus]

Not more numbers to remember, please. Things are ridiculous enough as it is.

I know the 'special' sorts out there love this stuff, but there's only so much alphanumeric nonsense us regular types can remember.

 

[estebanrey]

All this talk of learning and master forgery is pap. Getting a card before pin used to be instant use, the pin has stopped that.

Then why right now on the BBC news is there a story how Britain is Europe's main target for card fraud, with gangs putting cameras in cash points to capture PINs and cloning cards?

All chip and PIN has done has shifted the method of how the fraud is committed, it certainly hasn't stopped anyone instantly using a stolen credit card.

 

[Ryan-3]

If you try a pin you don't know, you have a one in 10000 chance first time, one in 9999 for the second, and a one in 9998 for the third - unless you're unimaginably thick. Secure enough, but not if they watch you entering your own pin.