Oh dear, the benefit scroungers are scared!

I don't have issue with anyone who works, at any level.

I have issue with people who DON'T work at all.

Given what you just said, how is it fair then that people on min wage have to pay high rent with no chance of saving for a way onto the property ladder, when people who can't be bothered to work get given a house for free and all they have to pay is council tax, which comes out of their other money that is given to them?

It isn't fair, but it is right in an advanced society. Nobody should be left homeless regardless if their situation if it can be helped. The issue isn't that people on benefits are given too much, it's that minimum wage is too little and those that already have the wealth are too greedy.

I'm not really sure why statements such as this enter into the debate.

The TV show is clearly (and rightly IMO) aimed at highlighting the very real problem of benefit dependency amongst the long term unemployed.

Yes, job seekers is £5bn a year (about 3%) of the welfare budget. But, for starters, many of the long term unemployed claim a lot more than just job seekers, and the cost is significant.

However, it's not the cost most people take issue with. It's principle. Benefits street maybe a caricature of benefits abuse, but these people do exist, and it's unfair to chastise channel 4 for showing the truth.

They are a minority, but it's a minority that needs addressing if the system is to operate in the interests of the majority.

Is it a real problem though? A tiny minority of people use up a tiny amount of the budget being wasters, I'd happily pay 1% more tax so that they're not homeless and (for the most part) committing crime to get by. It's a small price to pay for social equality.

I think the Raikiri's point (I'm relying on being corrected if I've misinterpreted it) is that a lot of time (and therefore money) is being wasted trying to reduce a 5bn spend down to, for example, 4.5bn at the expense of a lot of people being a lot worse off than they were before, when there are other ways to make this sort of money but it involves upsetting people who might actually be voters.

Pretty much yeah, It's a tiny part of what is spent and completely non-representative of the general public.
 
Scrap benefits completely I say.

And make punishment for crimes so tough that people actually think twice before they steal. Make all rape convicts get hanged, make peados get hung, drawn, and quartered or something equally worse, and put people in prison for a year for petty crimes; not prison as it stands now, but Russian Gulag style prison.

Then see where our country stands: I bet it would be in much better stead!
 
Scrap benefits completely I say.

And make punishment for crimes so tough that people actually think twice before they steal. Make all rape convicts get hanged, make peados get hung, drawn, and quartered or something equally worse, and put people in prison for a year for petty crimes; not prison as it stands now, but Russian Gulag style prison.

Then see where our country stands: I bet it would be in much better stead!

here here :cool:
 
At least if you're going to be a terrible poster then be consistently terrible. At the moment you're putting very little effort into this gimmick.

Ok, raise min wage also to compensate people who work but still claim benefits :rolleyes:
 
Is it a real problem though? A tiny minority of people use up a tiny amount of the budget being wasters, I'd happily pay 1% more tax so that they're not homeless and (for the most part) committing crime to get by. It's a small price to pay for social equality.

Well, as the program shows, many of them are still engaged in criminal activity. Drugs, theft, benefit fraud, receiving stolen goods, despite all receiving benefits.

Yes, it's problem. The cost of long term unemployment is not "tiny". You can't just look at the JSA cost, which in itself isn't really that small either. The money could be used to help people who might give something back one day. Remember, they not only cost money in benefits (housing benifit, job seekers, child benefit, pension etc etc), but they contribute nothing to the system to pay for healthcare, education, defence etc, which they all benefit from. Some have been unemployed for decades, that's not acceptable, and I don't really understand why it's tolerated.

Even if you stick with "it's only 1%" myth, 1% of most peoples tax bill equates to £50-100 a year. Would most people choose to spend that money on themselves, or give it to someone who hasn't worked for 3 years if they were free to make that decision?

I agree society has little option but to pay the money in the short term. But equally, people (and TV companies) shouldn't be criticised for "demeaning" long term benefit claimants. The process should be demeaning as possible, there's nothing glamorous about paying the tax that funds their meal ticket. If people find it demeaning, maybe they should take a long hard look in the mirror.

I think the Raikiri's point (I'm relying on being corrected if I've misinterpreted it) is that a lot of time (and therefore money) is being wasted trying to reduce a 5bn spend down to, for example, 4.5bn at the expense of a lot of people being a lot worse off than they were before, when there are other ways to make this sort of money but it involves upsetting people who might actually be voters.

The money is being "wasted" to keep they system fair, prevent the rot spreading further and to encourage people find work. The prospect of claiming benefits for anything more than a few months should be as unappealing as possible.

You could equally say that if the unemployed spent has much time looking for a job as they do winging about benefit cuts and committing crime they might be better off.

Also, benifit claimants are voters the same as the rest of us so your argument doesn't really make sense.
 
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Ok, raise min wage also to compensate people who work but still claim benefits :rolleyes:

How foolish I was to not realise you meant that from your five words of knee-jerking.

Now you've solved the problem of the people in full time employment not earning enough to live on you just need to work out how people on zero hours contracts can plan some sort of financial stability. And while you're keeping that particular plate spinning there's a lot of people upset that all the people that have recently been made homeless are committing crimes.
 
Scrap benefits completely I say.

And make punishment for crimes so tough that people actually think twice before they steal. Make all rape convicts get hanged, make peados get hung, drawn, and quartered or something equally worse, and put people in prison for a year for petty crimes; not prison as it stands now, but Russian Gulag style prison.

Then see where our country stands: I bet it would be in much better stead!

Yeah because Russia is doing just brilliantly. Ranking 105th out of 111 countries for quality of life, behind Iran, Uganda and Saudi Arabia. It's not like they have a massive drug or crime problem...
 
I think we're missing the point - 86JR isn't proposing changes that will make the country better, he's proposing changes (cunningly disguised as low effort troll posts) that will let him keep more of 'his' taxes. At least in the short term, until all the money he saved has to be spent on bodyguards.
 
And Caged wants it the same as it is now presumably so he can continue to take advantage of the system (I see no other reason).

Caged, are you on benefits?
 
It has nothing to do with you. But no, I do not claim any form of income support or tax credits.

The fact that you can't understand why someone doesn't want to see people starving and homeless even though it doesn't benefit them speaks more about yourself than anything you will ever type.
 
Yes. People just don't want to do them!



2994 jobs there within just 20 miles of Plymouth which is a small city in Devon !!!

Did you really just post jobs from that site lol ?

A huge amount do not even exist and are posted everyday from 2 years ago at least.

Basically its a massive failure since it was launched and is just full of useless agencies.
 
Even if that figure represents a perfectly viable job for each vacancy, the population of Plymouth is approx 250, 000. If we use the national average percentage for unemployment; we can estimate that there are around 19, 000 unemployed people in Plymouth alone, ignoring the rest in the 20 mile radius.
http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/Une...ntinues-fall/story-20337003-detail/story.html

The above link gives a figure of 4610, which is still a good deal higher than yours.

Also, 20 miles is far too great a distance for a minimum wage job, even if it is full time. Travel costs are a serious issue when you aren't even being paid enough money for essentials.

3000 jobs, many of which are fakes, duplicates or low hours part time and most of the rest are unobtainable or unusable by most people.

At least 4600 unemployed as a low estimate for just part of that area, and that's the cooked figure.

And this is the compelling evidence to "prove" that anyone can get a job that pays enough to live on. When, obviously, it proves the opposite.


15, even 10, years ago the company I work for quite often had trouble filling vacancies because people could fairly easily get a better job. 15 minute interview with the manager and the job was yours, can you start tomorrow?

Nowadays, it's not uncommon to have dozens of applicants for what is now a much worse job (working conditions have been significantly degraded to cut costs and the value of the pay has gone down quite a bit), there are two interviews which can be an hour each and passing those only gives you a chance to work for no pay as your one shot to try to prove your worthiness to have a low-grade minimum wage job as a flunkey. I'm not singling out my employer - it's better than some and no worse than most.

People who talk about getting a job being easy have no understanding of how much the situation has changed even in the last few years. "When times are hard, to hell with the peasants" has long been the norm. It's dressed up nowadays, but under the silly euphemisms such as "valued team member", we're still peasants and flunkeys.
 
And there it is ladies and gentleman, there is the reason "The legend of mart" doesn't bother finding a job.

I'm going to be blunt. You are either trolling or delusional with your silly ideas such as everyone being able to create a profitable business from nothing with just £10, so I will have to blunt to try to get through to you.


If you give millions of people a choice between death or crime, which are the only alternatives without the welfare state and without enough jobs in which it is possible to earn a living, you will create millions of criminals.

With that many, you have a choice of either mass murder by the state as a cull or the collapse of civilisation.

Welfare is far cheaper than the alternatives, even if a miniscule percentage of people abuse exploits in the system (and it is a miniscule percentage).
 
And Caged wants it the same as it is now presumably so he can continue to take advantage of the system (I see no other reason).

Caged, are you on benefits?

You see nothing and you are not using whatever amount of reasoning ability you have. That's the problem.

You're also not reading any posts, since Caged and other people have explained some of the reasons why it's far better to have a functional welfare system than to have a horde of starving, homeless, dying people with no hope and no choices other than death or crime. Even a bona fide sociopath could follow that line of argument because it doesn't require any empathy at all - it's valid even solely in terms of cost.

I'm also not on benefits. I was on the dole for a few weeks about 25 years ago while I was applying for jobs - should I kill myself so my corpse can be sold by the state to recoup the cost of that?
 
And Caged wants it the same as it is now presumably so he can continue to take advantage of the system (I see no other reason).

Caged, are you on benefits?



Your just a wind up merchant and a troll. Oh and a wannabe tax dodger.
 
Scrap benefits completely I say.

And make punishment for crimes so tough that people actually think twice before they steal. Make all rape convicts get hanged, make peados get hung, drawn, and quartered or something equally worse, and put people in prison for a year for petty crimes; not prison as it stands now, but Russian Gulag style prison.

Then see where our country stands: I bet it would be in much better stead!

Ah, so you finally come out in favour of mass slaughter, although of course you're still being dishonest about it and pretending it's a fair criminal justice system. You'd force millions of people into a choice between stealing necessities for survival (food, water, etc) and death and then you'd kill them for stealing (a prison like that is a way of killing people through exposure, malnutrition, disease or violence).

Your plans are inefficient, though. You should be calling for more efficient ways to kill the millions of people your plans require, such as concentration camps or poisoning water supplies for poor areas. So you'd be wasting the state's money...which is what you're calling for millions of people to be killed for doing. Hmm.
 
Scrap benefits completely I say.

And make punishment for crimes so tough that people actually think twice before they steal. Make all rape convicts get hanged, make peados get hung, drawn, and quartered or something equally worse, and put people in prison for a year for petty crimes; not prison as it stands now, but Russian Gulag style prison.

Then see where our country stands: I bet it would be in much better stead!
Or, you know, line up tax dodgers like yourself in the middle of the street so people could stone them to death.

Tax "avoidance", subsidies for too-big-to-fail banks, etc.. costs the country £65bn a year compared to £1.2bn a year in benefit fraud.

http://www.parasite-street.co.uk/
 
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