Discussing GCN Architecture, Performance & The Future

LtMatt · 20 Jan 2014 at 18:21

MjFrosty said:
You 'take' everything at face value. Because little Johan is voicing for multi vendor support because Mantle has the capacity that means it's a given. You can quote DICE till you're blue in the face Matt, unlike you I conclude from my own reasoning and not other peoples.

I won't hold it against you when the time comes, don't worry.

As i said i take the opinion of someone who worked with AMD closely to create something over the voice of a forum user who is stating his opinion. That's my choice.

Rroff said:
Don't appreciate what? I'm not the one going around calling people by silly childish names like "Rroffles" so don't get on my case about what was just a headsup not to assume all the regular forum users don't happen to have industry credentials.

I guess the jokey tone of my post didn't come across. I thought you liked that nickname.

I apologise if Frosty has Industry standard credentials. I'm betting he does not though.

Diagro · 20 Jan 2014 at 18:22

Orangey said:
Would that be one of those awful Fisher Price kits that kids use and end up taking half an hour to load for end users?

No, Was just after i finished Uni and was bored.

andybird123 said:
I'm intrigued, most industrial robots are controlled by PLC's, which use Ladder, there wouldn't be "an algorithm" as such, what language was the controller using?

AFAIK This one was using RAIL, What i find odd is that when i was at UNI all that was taught was C and C++ for Robotic Programming. But in the real world its all different ones for each manufacturer of robot. On reflection the degree was pointless and i don't think i will actually put my knowledge of AI to any use.

Rroff said:
I notice both you and ltmatt are a bit negative about the credentials of forum users here in this thread - amongst the regular posts here they are infact a few people who do or did work for nVidia, shiny entertainment, frontier, sony, etc. not everyone who posts here is just some armchair expert who happens to have read a few articles on the subject.

I am not at all negative about peoples credentials.
If they have experience in the subject then Woop! Lets have a discussion and let me learn some new stuff from them, After all what do we live for? i live to learn.
In General 95% of people who say the code is crap don't have a clue. I'm talking in a whole here, thats including the rest of the internet... the 5% who do may well be here on this forum

humbug · 20 Jan 2014 at 18:24

Matts "Rroffles" looks tongue in cheek to me Roff, he does that with just about every one he can think up a name for, he calls Boomstick 'Broomstick', mind you so do i now...

Just take it for what it is, you take yourself far to seriously. this place needs lightning up a bit and IMO Matt does a good job of doing that.

Rroff · 20 Jan 2014 at 18:27

humbug said:
Matts "Rroffles" looks tongue in cheek to me Roff, he does that with just about every one he can think up a name for, he calls Boomstick Broomstick, mind you so do i now...

Just take it for what it is, you take yourself far to seriously. this place needs lightning up a bit and IMO Matt does a good job of doing that.

Tongue in cheek or not hes using it in a demeaning and childish manner and not called for coming from someone who isn't a mate. Its not really worth me bothering about normally but if hes gonna take the tone of me being rude in the manner of "don't appreciate that" then well it goes both ways.

Suarez7 · 20 Jan 2014 at 18:28

humbug said:
Matts "Rroffles" looks tongue in cheek to me Roff, he does that with just about every one he can think up a name for, he calls Boomstick 'Broomstick', mind you so do i now...

Just take it for what it is, you take yourself far to seriously. this place needs lightning up a bit and IMO Matt does a good job of doing that.

Apart from when some of us have a joke going the other way it's you and others who start taking it too seriously and RTM'ing posts and what not.

Strong hypocrisy

Making up names for everyone is hardly lighting the place up either....

LtMatt · 20 Jan 2014 at 18:28

humbug said:
Matts "Rroffles" looks tongue in cheek to me Roff, he does that with just about every one he can think up a name for, he calls Boomstick 'Broomstick', mind you so do i now...

Just take it for what it is, you take yourself far to seriously. this place needs lightning up a bit and IMO Matt does a good job of doing that.

Very true Bumhug that is my pet name for Broomstick. I'm sure Gregorio, The Italian Stallion and Rusty Galloway can all confirm i do like to give people non offensive nicknames. That's just my style and anyone who knows me properly know i don't have a nasty bone in my body. Sure i got a big bone between my legs, but this is neither the time nor place to discuss that.

Rroff said:
Tongue in cheek or not hes using it in a demeaning and childish manner and not called for coming from someone who isn't a mate. Its not really worth me bothering about normally but if hes gonna take the tone of me being rude in the manner of "don't appreciate that" then well it goes both ways.

Sorry Rroffles i was trying to come across as a appalled middle class snob. I guess sometimes you mistake my attempt at humour for being demeaning or childish.

I honestly meant no harm by it and apologise if it offended you.

humbug · 20 Jan 2014 at 18:29

Rroff said:
Tongue in cheek or not hes using it in a demeaning and childish manner and not called for coming from someone who isn't a mate. Its not really worth me bothering about normally but if hes gonna take the tone of me being rude and "don't appreciate that" then well it goes both ways.

"not a mate"

Well, you don't make many friends by having a go at someone for giving you an affectionate nickname.

LtMatt · 20 Jan 2014 at 18:33

humbug said:
"not a mate"

Well, you don't make many friends by having a go at someone for giving you an affectionate nickname.

I liked Rroffles as well.

Guess that's another one off the christmas card list. Gregorio, Whyscotty and Rusty Galloway are my only Nvidia friends on the forum.

Rroff · 20 Jan 2014 at 18:36

LtMatt said:
Sorry Rroffles i was trying to come across as a appalled middle class snob. I guess sometimes you mistake my attempt at humour for being demeaning or childish.

I honestly meant no harm by it and apologise if it offended you.

I apologise if it was meant entirely light hearted, it been used around here by people i.e. spoffle as a way to have a dig at me.

LtMatt · 20 Jan 2014 at 18:37

Rroff said:
I apologise if it was meant entirely light hearted, it been used around here by people i.e. spoffle as a way to have a dig at me.

No worries. Not seen 'Spoffles' around here in ages. Pretty sure he got a life ban from the gpu section.

I hope its still ok to call you Rroffles. I think its kind of cute in a totally non homo sort of way.

Silent_Scone · 20 Jan 2014 at 18:38

You can apologise when the time comes Matt

.

I'll be sure to conduct a nice multi quote for you with some recognised industry names. Oh no wait we tried that with John Carmack but apparently he doesn't know what he's talking about either.

LtMatt · 20 Jan 2014 at 18:42

MjFrosty said:
You can apologise when the time comes Matt .

I'll be sure to conduct a nice multi quote for you with some recognised industry names. Oh no wait we tried that with John Carmack but apparently he doesn't know what he's talking about either.

You can do mate. I'm taking AMD and Johan at their word. Can't blame me for that as they're the ones who not only created the API but have worked on it and know what it is capable of. If im wrong then ill hold up my hands, as im sure you'll do the same. Unless im mistaken, i don't think Carmack has worked with Mantle yet.

humbug · 20 Jan 2014 at 18:42

MjFrosty said:
You can apologise when the time comes Matt .

I'll be sure to conduct a nice multi quote for you with some recognised industry names. Oh no wait we tried that with John Carmack but apparently he doesn't know what he's talking about either.

I will bite, he doesn't

Silent_Scone · 20 Jan 2014 at 18:46

LtMatt said:
You can do mate. I'm taking AMD and Johan at their word. Can't blame me for that as they're the ones who not only created the API but have worked on it and know what its capable of. If im wrong then ill hold up my hands, as im sure you'll do the same. Unless im mistaken, i don't think Carmack has worked with Mantle yet.

Can you tell me where I've said Johan is 'wrong' whilst I think about it? If I recall earlier I was telling you what was in fact what he actually said but elaberated on it to explain WHY it won't happen. If you want to be pedantic about it and quote till the cows come home, then really I haven't discredited him other than saying he most likely can't compile drivers. Which he most likely cannot given his credentials online. What the chap wants to happen and what will are two entirely different things in the instance I spoke of. So...nergh!?

It doesn't make the slightest bit of difference to him or anyone at DICE that they can't amend Mantle at a core level, or whether NV can or not either. He's not speaking on their behalf anymore than AMD are of NV.

Rroff · 20 Jan 2014 at 18:50

LtMatt said:
No worries. Not seen 'Spoffles' around here in ages. Pretty sure he got a life ban from the gpu section.

I hope its still ok to call you Rroffles. I think its kind of cute in a totally non homo sort of way.

If its genuinely meant humorously I don't mind. With the number of people who give me stick here for having a different opinion rather than discussing the point its hard to differentiate sometimes.

LtMatt · 20 Jan 2014 at 18:50

MjFrosty said:
Can you tell me where I've said Johan is 'wrong' whilst I think about it? If I recall earlier I was telling you what was in fact what he actually said but elaberated on it to explain WHY it won't happen. If you want to be pedantic about it and quote till the cows come home, then really I haven't discredited him other than saying he most likely can't compile drivers. Which he most likely cannot given his credentials online. What the chap wants to happen and what will are two entirely different things in the instance I spoke of. So...nergh!?

Unless im mistaken, your argument is that Nvidia can't use Mantle? Well the quotes ive provided contradict that opinion completely. I posted them on the first page. Mantle is not tied to GCN and can work on competing GPU solutions. It will be up to Nvidia to embrace and support Mantle in the end. It will only work on GCN initially but its still in Beta and support for other gpu's will be added further down the line. That's the plan and currently i have no reason to doubt that information is false. Keeping Mantle to GCN only makes no sense.

Johan Andersson: I agree, yeah, and, also the vision for Mantle - well it can play out in many ways. You can't really say for sure but the vision for Mantle is that it can become an open API also and that's something we're completely open for. It's something AMD is open for also, it's just that that's not the right way to go at it initially...

Source
http://techreport.com/news/25651/ma...ite-games-dice-calls-for-multi-vendor-support

But the "pink elephant in the room," as he called it, is multi-vendor support. Andersson made it clear that, while it only supports GCN-based GPUs right now, Mantle provides enough abstraction to support other hardware—i.e. future AMD GPUs and competing offerings. In fact, Andersson said that most Mantle functionality can work on most modern GPUs out today.

Source
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/johan-andersson-battlefield-4-interview,review-32839-8.html

Rroff said:
If its genuinely meant humorously I don't mind. With the number of people who give me stick here for having a different opinion rather than discussing the point its hard to differentiate sometimes.

Good man. Now lets hug this out.

Rroff · 20 Jan 2014 at 18:52

Problem is until Mantle is actually out there in the hands of 3rd parties to play with and or potentially add to, all that PR stuff is just fluff, no different than if nVidia was claiming CUDA was "open" because they "wouldn't" stop someone else from supporting it even though thats essentially not feasible. (Don't really consider Dice a 3rd party in the same way here due to the level of the relationship with AMD - they are potentially somewhat tied to what they can and can't say even if there was something negative to say).

Gregster · 20 Jan 2014 at 18:52

LtMatt said:
Unless im mistaken, your argument is that Nvidia can't use Mantle? Well the quotes ive provided contradict that opinion completely. I posted them on the first page. Mantle is not tied to GCN and can work on competing GPU solutions. It will be up to Nvidia to embrace and support Mantle in the end. It will only work on GCN initially but its still in Beta and support for other gpu's will be added further down the line.

Source
http://techreport.com/news/25651/ma...ite-games-dice-calls-for-multi-vendor-support

Source
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/johan-andersson-battlefield-4-interview,review-32839-8.html

Pretty much the same way that AMD just had to embrace PhysX then....Just saying

flopper · 20 Jan 2014 at 18:53

Mantle created by Gods to be used by mere mortals.

Suarez7 · 20 Jan 2014 at 18:54

flopper said:
Mantle created by Gods to be used by mere mortals.

Awww someone been letting you play with pritt sticks again?