Oh dear, the benefit scroungers are scared!

86JR said:
Maybe that would give people incentive to find their own ways of earning money?

Why should society be forced to pay for people who have no job but live on their own with everything paid for by the state and therefore by society? People like you.
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What if the parents are elderly and only have a one bedroom flat, what if they have no parents alive, what if, what if....

I don't live on my own, and I have been out of work for 7 weeks now, having paid into the system for over 15 years now I'm not allowed to claim benefits because some self righteous little ****** who got everything handed to him on a plate living at home with mummy thinks that I shouldn't be allowed to?

You are just bitter because you didn't get all the benefits you thought you were going to get, just admit it.
 
86JR said:
Yet they can be put into a media friendly sized soun-bite of just 'blame the rich taxpayers, yo!' ??
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Do you have some kind of condition in which a criticism of something means the polar opposite is supported explicitly?.

It makes debating somewhat difficult.
 
elmarko said:
This is fallacious, the 'benefits generation' you speak of don't vote at all.
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That's right, the experiment failed! But then the Labour party aren't famous for getting things right.

Labour support is most prominent within the field of skilled labour & manual labour (both working groups) along with the public sector, the benefits generation are not even politically engaged (which is why there needs are mostly ignored).
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Again correct, that was another avenue that Labour tried to create dependency (thank you for reminding me) public sector was bloated horrendously while Labour was in power. Not only in an attempt to artificially decrease the unemployment figures with pointless jobs. But to create another mass of voters for the Labour party. This was far more successful in terms of voting power but the flip side was that local council services suffered because of the awful quality of the people they were hiring. Now we have horrible inept jobsworths to deal with in the dole office etc

The funny thing is my pay packet was essentially frozen before 2010 and my earning fell in real terms between 2004 and 2010. Once we kicked out the Labour party my pay has increased due to rise in personal allowance over the last 4 years.
 
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elmarko said:
Do you have some kind of condition in which a criticism of something means the polar opposite is supported explicitly?.

It makes debating somewhat difficult.
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He's completely right, the lefts mantra

*Jail the bankers
*1%ers
*Nasty Patry boooooo
*Tory Toffs

They all sound like a broken record to me
 
robgmun said:
He's completely right, the lefts mantra

*Jail the bankers
*1%ers
*Nasty Patry boooooo
*Tory Toffs

They all sound like a broken record to me
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He isn't completely right because he was responding to me, I've never said any of the phrases above.

If he wants to debate with a straw man then he's more than welcome to, but leave me out of it.

RDM said:
Thank god this thread hasn't devolved into the usual ill thought out clichés from both left and right!
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:D
 
TheLegendOfMart said:
Yeah screw the poor, lets ignore the double figure billions tax avoiders screw out of the country and focus on the £5bn benefit bill.
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Even the Vodafone example, they still paid HMRC £1.2bn in 2010 and £140m in tax in 2011. So in 2010 Vodafone alone paid for 1/5th of the population to live for free. Ofcourse, this gets ignored and people try to make out they never pay anything.
 
TheLegendOfMart said:
What if the parents are elderly and only have a one bedroom flat, what if they have no parents alive, what if, what if....

I don't live on my own, and I have been out of work for 7 weeks now, having paid into the system for over 15 years now I'm not allowed to claim benefits because some self righteous little ****** who is currently paying for me to live and paying for all the toys I have recently bought thinks that I shouldn't be allowed to?

You are just bitter because you didn't get all the benefits you thought you were going to get, just admit it.
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EFA.

I am bitter because I was told by the Jobcentre that I am not entitled to the right amount of benefits because my family pays too much tax. When it is their tax that is paying for benefits! Absolutely ridiculous. And on the contrary you have families who have never paid tax in their life who get everything on your aforementioned silver platter....all paid for by people like me.
 
TheLegendOfMart said:
Yeah screw the poor,
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Poor =! The lifestyle benefits layabouts that need a kick in the backside, but go on believing the tripe from the socialistworker.co.uk/

lets ignore the double figure billions tax avoiders screw out of the country and focus on the £5bn benefit bill.
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Whats wrong with doing both? Why do you want to continue throwing money at the problem when nearly 2 decades of doing it has proved that not only that this doesn't work, but actually made for a worse society?
 
86JR said:
Even the Vodafone example, they still paid HMRC £1.2bn in 2010 and £140m in tax in 2011. So in 2010 Vodafone alone paid for 1/5th of the population to live for free. Ofcourse, this gets ignored and people try to make out they never pay anything.
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the £5bn benefits bill isn't just Job Seekers you know.

Tax credits cost the country £31bn a year, people who work 30 hours a week up to £14k a year get Tax Credit top ups as well as their wage.

86JR said:
EFA.

I am bitter because I was told by the Jobcentre that I am not entitled to the right amount of benefits because my family pays too much tax. When it is their tax that is paying for benefits! Absolutely ridiculous. And on the contrary you have families who have never paid tax in their life who get everything on your aforementioned silver platter....all paid for by people like me.
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It's not because they pay too much tax, it's because they earn over a certain amount, also because you live at home, you are 27 try moving out.

You go on and on about how families should pay for each other instead of claiming benefits but you think it's ridiculous because you can't get loads and loads of money in benefits and don't think your parents should pay for you, double standards much?
 
86JR said:
EFA.

I am bitter because I was told by the Jobcentre that I am not entitled to the right amount of benefits because my family pays too much tax. When it is their tax that is paying for benefits! Absolutely ridiculous. And on the contrary you have families who have never paid tax in their life who get everything on your aforementioned silver platter....all paid for by people like me.
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Wait,,,

You are angry because you are not getting the opposite of means testing?
 
TheLegendOfMart said:
the £5bn benefits bill isn't just Job Seekers you know.

Tax credits cost the country £31bn a year, people who work 30 hours a week up to £14k a year get Tax Credit top ups as well as their wage.



It's not because they pay too much tax, it's because they earn over a certain amount, also because you live at home, you are 27 try moving out.

You go on and on about how families should pay for each other instead of claiming benefits but you think it's ridiculous because you can't get loads and loads of money in benefits and don't think your parents should pay for you, double standards much?
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Amount earned and amount of tax paid is a linked attribute.

I wouldn't want benefits if I could have £100k a day in benefits.

I don't even want to move out, I like living at home, around people I know and care about.

At the end of the day I pay tax and you are on benefits, you don't really have a leg to stand on in this discussion do you ;) Get a job ;)
 
86JR said:
Amount earned and amount of tax paid is a linked attribute.

I wouldn't want benefits if I could have £100k a day in benefits.

I don't even want to move out, I like living at home, around people I know and care about.

At the end of the day I pay tax and you are on benefits, you don't really have a leg to stand on in this discussion do you ;) Get a job ;)
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Yeah but you are trying to skew the argument by saying it is attributed to the fact that your parents pay too much tax, rather than large amount of money they earn. I like how you dodge my question about the fact that you think you should have been entitled to more benefits and that your parents shouldn't have to pay for you, yet you expect poor people to pay for each other and not claim benefits.

You have been a sponging student and have been running a business for a WHOPPING 2 WHOLE YEARS, I've been working since I was 18 and have been paying a crapload of my wages as taxes for over 15 years. Don't lecture me on what your taxes have been paying for, I paid your way through college/uni.
 
TheLegendOfMart said:
Yeah but you are trying to skew the argument by saying it is attributed to the fact that your parents pay too much tax, rather than large amount of money they earn. I like how you dodge my question about the fact that you think you should have been entitled to more benefits and that your parents shouldn't have to pay for you, yet you expect poor people to pay for each other and not claim benefits.

You have been a sponging student and have been running a business for a WHOPPING 2 WHOLE YEARS, I've been working since I was 18 and have been paying a crapload of my wages as taxes for over 15 years. Don't lecture me on what your taxes have been paying for, I paid your way through college/uni.
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Only unpaid student loans cost the taxpayer money. I paid mine off in full. So nice try, but you haven't paid anything for me yet ;) As for paying tax, I have been doing so a lot longer than 2 years. I had a web design/hosting outfit back in College all the way through University.

Try Harder ;)
 
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