Rubbing noise + vibration with gentle steering at slow speed. Any ideas?

[ui]ICEMAN · 29 Jan 2014 at 20:47

Hi guys, I've posted this up on the relevant manufacturer forums and the car is being collected on Monday to be diagnosed but I'm at a loss as to what this may be. I'd like to have some idea so I can at least point them in the right direction.

I took a video of a little jaunt around my neighborhood. The rubbing/vibration starts with a little steering lock and gets slower/less intense as the lock increases. As you can see in the video, when I back off the lock slowly, it gets faster and more noticeable.

I've tried braking and even checked to see if it was the handbrake rubbing but it doesn't get better or worse by applying it. It seems to be a rubbing or even a wheel skipping kind of feeling but it's so hard to describe unfortunately.

Now, the car wasn't doing this before it went to the dealer for the new gearbox + clutch assembly. I've checked the wheel arches as obviously I thought it might just be rubbing due to clearance issues but it's not that. All the wheels are tight and I feel no slack in the brake discs either.

I know there's a lot of knowledgeable mechanics on here so I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on what it could/may be.

Thanks

Gibbo · 29 Jan 2014 at 21:41

Something is catching, maybe on alloy spokes on inside of wheel, what about brake / dust guards maybe loose and catching?

Or limited slip differential broken or not shimmed right, very expensive if so,demand garage sorts.

[ui]ICEMAN · 29 Jan 2014 at 21:44

Well I'm praying it's not the diff as I'll be moving it on if so. It just came back from Ferrari with a $46k bill for the work they did and while I only had to contribute 10% of that, I'd rather not be looking at a $25k diff when I've only put 400 miles on it!

Personally, I find it odd that this wasn't happening before the works were done so with that in mind, I may be safe.

Gibbo · 29 Jan 2014 at 21:47

[ui]ICEMAN;25747926 said:
Well I'm praying it's not the diff as I'll be moving it on if so. It just came back from Ferrari with a $46k bill for the work they did and while I only had to contribute 10% of that, I'd rather not be looking at a $25k diff when I've only put 400 miles on it!

Personally, I find it odd that this wasn't happening before the works were done so with that in mind, I may be safe.

What did you have done in detail? If gear box and clutch means they also change or adjust diff I don't know but skipping across pavement with lock could be diff.

Also something more simple, checked alignment and tyre pressures and check no nail or anything lodged in tyre tread, though doubtful.

[ui]ICEMAN · 29 Jan 2014 at 21:50

They replaced the whole gearbox and put in a new clutch. Additionally, exhaust manifolds were replaced, engine mounts and exhaust brackets also.

I've gone around the tyres to see if there's anything in them, can't see or feel anything. What's interesting is that once I go past a certain steering angle, the sound/vibration stops.

Alignment did pop into my head earlier so I'll have them check that. It's definitely not good though so I'm hoping it's something they did/forgot to do during the previous works.

rare · 29 Jan 2014 at 22:07

Did they not road test the vehicle after carrying out 46 grands worth of work on it? Ridiculous.

Seems strange that its to do with steering mind, surely they never touched that end of the car?

[TW]Taggart · 29 Jan 2014 at 22:12

your wheel nuts are loose.

Muffin` · 29 Jan 2014 at 22:12

[TW]Taggart;25748102 said:
your wheel nuts are loose.

Backslick · 29 Jan 2014 at 22:20

I'm baffled as to why you'd post a fairly specific Ferrari problem here but there we go.

It's probably the ball joints. Not as common a problem, or as weak as they were, as on the 360 but they do go. If you've had the engine mounts done recently then I'm assuming it's not exactly a young or rarely driven car.

The good news is that it's not an expensive fix, it's even DIY'able if you're happy to do so. ~£250-odd DIY job, or I'd expect to pay an hour or so labour per side, plus the cost of the parts.

Terminal_Boy · 29 Jan 2014 at 22:20

Does the noise/vibration occur more when you steer in one direction compared to the other or is it equal?

Could be the engine/gearbox is out of alignment with the frame and is messing up the wheel geometry...

Housey · 29 Jan 2014 at 22:21

Yup check your nuts.

[ui]ICEMAN · 29 Jan 2014 at 22:25

rare said:
Did they not road test the vehicle after carrying out 46 grands worth of work on it? Ridiculous.

Seems strange that its to do with steering mind, surely they never touched that end of the car?

They did but it's only a short test on these types of cars.

[TW]Taggart;25748102 said:
your wheel nuts are loose.

I thought this too but I don't have a torque wrench to hand. However, they're definitely all very tight with my normal socket wrench and breaker bar.

Backslick said:
I'm baffled as to why you'd post a fairly specific Ferrari problem here but there we go.

It's probably the ball joints. Not as common a problem, or as weak as they were, as on the 360 but they do go. If you've had the engine mounts done recently then I'm assuming it's not exactly a young or rarely driven car.

The good news is that it's not an expensive fix, it's even DIY'able if you're happy to do so. ~£250-odd DIY job, or I'd expect to pay an hour or so labour per side, plus the cost of the parts.

I posted it here because I'd like some alternative input as I said in my opening post. I've already got this on the Ferrari forum and haven't gained any useful insight so what do I have to lose

Actually engine mounts on the 430 are common to go within 5-6k miles, mine lasted double that.

If it is the ball joins then i'll probably buy the Hill Engineering ones but I'm just confused as to why the sound/vibration goes away when the steering goes past a certain point.

[ui]ICEMAN · 29 Jan 2014 at 22:26

Terminal_Boy said:
Does the noise/vibration occur more when you steer in one direction compared to the other or is it equal?

Could be the engine/gearbox is out of alignment with the frame and is messing up the wheel geometry...

It seems to be the same in either direction. Thanks for the suggestion

shauncr91 · 29 Jan 2014 at 22:29

Surely this can be simply put down to a case of you dropped car off for work, picked it up and it was broken? Not sure why you don't just dump the car on the dealers doorstep and leave it there until it's fixed, their problem to get fixed surely?

Terminal_Boy · 29 Jan 2014 at 22:33

Damaged steering rack if it isn't ball joints then.

Backslick · 29 Jan 2014 at 22:33

5-6k for engine mounts?! Not unless it's been ritually abused... They are a common thing to change while the manifolds are being done though, I'll give you that.

Re the ball joints: I'm no Ferrari tech and admittedly you'd normally get more consistent clunking from knackered ball joints but it seems like the most likely candidate. The Scuderia ones make all sorts of strange noises when they're on the way out you don't have the carpet to cushion it...

shauncr91 · 29 Jan 2014 at 22:37

Backslick said:
5-6k for engine mounts?! Not unless it's been ritually abused...

This is Ferrari, a company that charges $772 to change the colour of the seat belts, are you really surprised?

[ui]ICEMAN · 29 Jan 2014 at 22:57

Backslick said:
5-6k for engine mounts?! Not unless it's been ritually abused... They are a common thing to change while the manifolds are being done though, I'll give you that.

Re the ball joints: I'm no Ferrari tech and admittedly you'd normally get more consistent clunking from knackered ball joints but it seems like the most likely candidate. The Scuderia ones make all sorts of strange noises when they're on the way out you don't have the carpet to cushion it...

FChat is littered with stories about engine mounts, it's actually in the buyers guide. My Father's is on its 2nd set at 10k miles, they don't seem to like certain weather conditions.

Also, you know what Ferrari are like, if something "isn't quite perfect" then it gets flagged for replacement. Just about everything Ferrari make seems to break under fairly normal use, I sometimes think the whole car is a consumable to them.

Ball joints would be a relief for me if so, fingers crossed that's what it is.

[ui]ICEMAN · 30 Jan 2014 at 14:56

So, the more I think about it and watch videos, I'm unfortunately convinced Gibbo has it right. Now, I think they replaced the diff as part of the gearbox anyway so if so I'm covered as it's under warranty.

It's the feeling of the wheel slipping/losing traction that really hits it home to me. I do find it odd that the noise goes away as you increase the cornering load so that might indicate all is not lost, it could just be a loose part rather than a broken differential.

If not, this car has just cost $76k in maintenance in less than a month and will probably be traded for something else!

I greatly appreciate your help here everyone, turns out I had more help here than on the manufacturer forums

Gibbo · 30 Jan 2014 at 15:02

[ui]ICEMAN;25759482 said:
So, the more I think about it and watch videos, I'm unfortunately convinced Gibbo has it right. Now, I think they replaced the diff as part of the gearbox anyway so if so I'm covered as it's under warranty.

It's the feeling of the wheel slipping/losing traction that really hits it home to me. I do find it odd that the noise goes away as you increase the cornering load so that might indicate all is not lost, it could just be a loose part rather than a broken differential.

If not, this car has just cost $76k in maintenance in less than a month and will probably be traded for something else!

Dave, the wheel skipping / loosing traction is without doubt the diff, unless they have done something really funky with the front ARB or as they call them in the US, swaybar, but even if they did, doubtful it would cause what your describing.

Differentials are not something for the YTS kid to be installing, they take someone with knowledge and skill to install in any car, not just a Ferrari. If they have had transmission out, they broke it, they need to fix it.