Baking bread - what am I doing wrong?

Soldato
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8 Nov 2005
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For the past two weekends I've embarked upon baking my own bread - something I've never really done before and thought it was about time to get to grips with, so I read a whole bunch of recipes and worked out which was the one for me.

But while results have been extremely tasty and the bread has a fantastic texture and spring to it, I'm not completely satisfied with the shape and the crust on the loaves I've baked - thus I'm wondering where I'm going wrong.

The recipe I'm following is as follows.

500g of strong white bread flour.
10g of fast-acting yeast.
10g of sea salt.
30g of softened butter.
330ml of room-temperature water.

I add just enough water to bring everything together in the bowl then tip out onto a lightly-oiled surface and knead the dough until smooth and stretchy. This is then rested in a lightly-oiled bowl, covered with a tea towel, and left for around 80-minutes until it's at least doubled in size - usually I start working with it when the dough has risen to the height of the bowl.

The dough is then tipped out onto a lightly-floured worktop and knocked back, then formed into a cob shape and placed on a tray lined with baking paper and left to rest until doubled in size.

And it's at this point where things start to go a bit weird.

While the dough forms into a neat little ball and seems to be holding its shape well, over the course of the second prove it spreads out more than up and when baked I end up with a cob that is far wider than it is tall.

This confuses me greatly - is my dough too wet? Have I under-kneaded it? Over-kneaded? Something else?!

Anyway, the dough is then baked in a 210° oven for around 30-minutes and I put a baking tray in the bottom and and fill it with water to create steam. But while this gives me a nice pliable crust, it's never quite as 'rustic' as I'd like it to be. And when I've tried baking without the water in there, the crust is more crunchy but still very, very thin.

Is the water a good idea? Am I using too much or too little? Should I be spraying water onto the bread itself before baking? Is the oven at the right temperature?

I can't overemphasise how much enjoyment making my own bread has brought me in such a short space of time, but while it tastes fantastic I'm really wanting to nail the technique before moving on to other types of loaves.

Any advice or assistance will be gratefully received!

PS. Apologies for lack of photographical evidence of the results - will rectify that this weekend if it helps.
 
I think BigBoy might be worth tracking down - he's pretty pro at bread baking.

My own bread making has had mixed success so I'm not sure what to offer aside from playing with the quantities of water a little. How old is your flour? It absorbs quite a bit of moisture if it has been sat around for any length of time.

I'm almost certain you shouldn't be spraying water on the bread though - so I wouldn't jump into experimenting with that. Is your baking tray full of boiling hot water rather than cold? From memory you really just want the steam nearer the start of the baking rather than the end.

Have you checked out the baking thread? BigBoy posted some guides in there a while back which were extremely useful. I'll see if I can find them for you.

edit: http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18133811&highlight=bigboy&page=11 Somewhere around there.

Ignore me looking like a tool in some of my replies... :p
 
How old is your flour?
Brand new stuff and kept in sealed containers.

I'm almost certain you shouldn't be spraying water on the bread though - so I wouldn't jump into experimenting with that.
IIRC it's a Baker Brothers thing, but I've heard it from other sources as well for successful crust-making, although I don't know what it's supposed to do!

I guess the evaporation of the water would probably help to dissolve the sugars in the dough and thus make it even crustier?

Is your baking tray full of boiling hot water rather than cold? From memory you really just want the steam nearer the start of the baking rather than the end.
It's left in to heat up as the oven does and then water straight from a boiled kettle goes in.

I'm wondering if the baking sheet I'm using for the bread is too large and the steam isn't able to flow freely around the oven.

Have you checked out the baking thread? BigBoy posted some guides in there a while back which were extremely useful
Ah-ha! Thought there was something like that but couldn't find it for looking.

Thank you, kind sir!
 
Glad to be of help (hopefully :p).

Once you solve the issues you're having please let me/us know as my bread baking is always a bit of a let-down :/
 
The steam gives the bread a crust by forming a skin on the outside.

You're probably not kneading it enough or overproving it - freeform bread is difficult to get just right.
 
Had another bash at baking a white cob last night (third time lucky and all that) and am much happier with the results, although somewhat predictably I can't really work out what's made the difference as I changed quite a lot of things.

This time round the recipe was adjusted to 400g of flour, with the other ingredients reduced accordingly, and I felt I used only just enough water to get everything bound together in the bowl, although it was still virtually all of the liquid I had in the jug.

Proving times were much the same (90-mins / 60-mins) but I used a different style of baking sheet, baked the bread on the very bottom rack of the oven instead of the one above it and made sure the oven was completely up to temperature with the tray of water steaming away nicely before putting the bread in.

After 38-minutes of cooking at 210ºC, followed by cooling it overnight (I finished baking around 1:30 in the morning...) I was left with this:

cob.jpg


And sliced open, the crumb looks like this:

sliced.jpg


Very, very tasty and a much more appealing shape with a thicker crust. Now I just need to work out how to do it again...
 
Looks pretty damn good :)

I do think that having too wet a dough is the downfall of many a baker. The way flour binds to water has a habit of hiding a lot of moisture and there's always the temptation to add more rather than simple mixing things better.
 
Wow, that looks like something you would buy in a bakery.... Which leads me to... Why not just buy it from a bakery?

I do enjoy cooking, but I've never really understood baking your own bread it generally costs more, doesn't taste better than my local bakery anyway (maybe this is because we have a gold baker) and doesn't take aaages!

Although, if I was you I'd be very proud to make something that looks so nice, so gratz! That looks like it would go lovely with some proper butter and a nice stew!
 
costs more to bake your own bread? lol wut?
flower is cheap as hell.

easy as hell as well if you have a bread maker do to the mixing or a proper mixer with dough hooks.

cleaning is minimal.

I personally love making a sour dough starter and leaving it for a day or two before making italian slipper bread.

it tastes awesome far better than you get from a shop and just as good as a bakeries if not better.
 
Wow, that looks like something you would buy in a bakery.... Which leads me to... Why not just buy it from a bakery?

I do enjoy cooking, but I've never really understood baking your own bread it generally costs more, doesn't taste better than my local bakery anyway (maybe this is because we have a gold baker) and doesn't take aaages!

Although, if I was you I'd be very proud to make something that looks so nice, so gratz! That looks like it would go lovely with some proper butter and a nice stew!

If you've got a good baker nearby then there would be less reason to make your own, yeah. As you say though, it's nice to have made something yourself and such.

I quite like using very wet dough. It is typical french style.

Interesting. What recipe/method would you use in that situation?
 
costs more to bake your own bread? lol wut?
flower is cheap as hell.

easy as hell as well if you have a bread maker do to the mixing or a proper mixer with dough hooks.

cleaning is minimal.

I personally love making a sour dough starter and leaving it for a day or two before making italian slipper bread.

it tastes awesome far better than you get from a shop and just as good as a bakeries if not better.

So... Before your start you have spent x amount on a mixer/bread maker. I assume you want a half decent one, so say £40 minimum (and they are cheap ones right?)

So 40 quid, plus no real saving per loaf ( for instance, to get a loaf op was happy with took him 3 attempts) so yes. It's just as cheap to go the local bakery. Also the time it takes to do needs to be factored into the cost.

Our bakery (in both stoke and nottingham) that I go make fantastic bread, is really cheap and just as tasty!

Don't get me wrong, when the mother in law cooks her own bread it is lovely, and the smell through their house is also gorgeous too, but I can't help but thinking it's just not worth it.

But then again, she doesn't do much else with her time, she loves to cook anything and everything so I guess she just does it for the enjoyment =)
 
So... Before your start you have spent x amount on a mixer/bread maker. I assume you want a half decent one, so say £40 minimum (and they are cheap ones right?)

So 40 quid, plus no real saving per loaf ( for instance, to get a loaf op was happy with took him 3 attempts) so yes. It's just as cheap to go the local bakery. Also the time it takes to do needs to be factored into the cost.

Our bakery (in both stoke and nottingham) that I go make fantastic bread, is really cheap and just as tasty!

Don't get me wrong, when the mother in law cooks her own bread it is lovely, and the smell through their house is also gorgeous too, but I can't help but thinking it's just not worth it.

But then again, she doesn't do much else with her time, she loves to cook anything and everything so I guess she just does it for the enjoyment =)

Buying a bread maker certainly isn't a requirement. I wouldn't go that route personally. Also, I seem to recall that the only half-decent bread makers are closer to £80.
 
Buying a bread maker certainly isn't a requirement. I wouldn't go that route personally. Also, I seem to recall that the only half-decent bread makers are closer to £80.



I did think that but then thought I might under price as opposed to over price as even at 40 it makes the same point, when I've made bread I didn't bother with the bread maker, but it wasn't particularly nice either haha.

My point was that it's gonna take a fair few bread making sessions to get the cost back =) (assuming your time isn't worth anything too)
 
Your recipe is quite close to the Pizza dough I make and also the Basic white bread recipe I make, although.....

500g Strong Flour
I use 300ml of water. 1 part (100ml) boiling to 2 (200ml) parts cold.
I use 7mg of yeast.
1 small level teaspoon Castor Sugar for the Yeast to feed on.
half teaspoon salt.
3 tbs olive oil.

Always consistent results. Just always remember to keep yeast and salt apart.

For my Pizza base I use the same above barr 400g double 00 flour and 100g Semollina.

With regards water I do sometimes aim for a little (10-20ml) less than 300ml as even that can be a little too wet and I end up going through a lot of Semolina kneading it.
 
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