Tyres aren't ditch finders bad drivers are!

jej_knowles said:
My gripe is with idiot drivers labeling Tyres as ditch finders meaning the Tyres will spit you off the road and into the nearest ditch when that is not true! A driver with no feel for the grip available will find themselves in a ditch because they are idiots!
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These are two separate things that you are arguing about though. :confused: You should be a good driver AND have good tyres to lessen the chances of you having an accident.

All you are saying is that you can perhaps compensate for having rubbish tyres on your car by driving more carefully and more slowly. That is a fair point but if you have rubbish tyres (and judging by this thread and your defensive nature on the subject... you probably do) would that not mean that to bring your stopping distances in line with everyone else, you would have to drive, lets say for arguments sake, at 10-20mph* under the speed limit? Do you do this? I bet the answer to that question is no....
 
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Yet again wrong! What I take exception to is people in effect blaming Tyres for being responsible for landing them in a ditch.
Look at it this way ;
Mr A drives Toyota aygo with skinny eco tyres on it
Mr B drives M3 with nice wide, sticky Tyres

Mr B thinks he is a competent driver and enjoys the performance of his car and the grip it demonstrates when he is pushing on.
Now ; Mr A and Mr B swap cars and set off on a nice drive.
Mr A being used to driving his aygo drives off in the M3 suitably impressed by the performance but goes gingerly into bends slowly building corner speed as he gains confidence but finds the cars cornering limit without landing himself in a ditch. ."that was a wonderful experience" he exclaims as he arrives back at the meeting place.
Mr B on the other hand being used to the fantastic performance of his pride and joy heads off in the aygo winding it up assured by his confidence that he normally takes these corners at X speed but on entering the first corner due to the narrow eco Tyres finds himself drastically under steering and drifts wildly across the road and into the ditch! " oh dear exclaims Mr B this car is a pile of poop and the Tyres are obviously DITCH FINDERS "
Now.. The question is ... Did Mr B crash because of the DITCH FINDERS? or did he crash because he drove the car beyond its limits and blame the Tyres???
 
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jej_knowles said:
Yet again wrong! What I take exception to is people in effect blaming Tyres for being responsible for landing them in a ditch.
Look at it this way ;
Mr A drives Toyota aygo with skinny eco tyres on it
Mr B drives M3 with nice wide, sticky Tyres

Mr B thinks he is a competent driver and enjoys the performance of his car and the grip it demonstrates when he is pushing on.
Now ; Mr A and Mr B swap cars and set off on a nice drive.
Mr A being used to driving his aygo drives off in the M3 suitably impressed by the performance but goes gingerly into bends slowly building corner speed as he gains confidence but finds the cars cornering limit without landing himself in a ditch. ."that was a wonderful experience" he exclaims as he arrives back at the meeting place.
Mr B on the other hand being used to the fantastic performance of his pride and joy heads off in the aw
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You realise that here you are basically just backing up the argument that crap tyres mean you are more likely to lose control?
 
Is the concept so difficult to grasp?
Every tyre has its limits that is fact. If you are not in tune with your vehicle/tyre combination and the limits of that arrangement you will thoughtlessly surpass the limits and find yourself out of control and in an accident scenario not because the Tyres are to blame but the overzealous driver.
 
TBH I think everyone here grasps that if you drive like an idiot your going to end up in a ditch and its your fault irrelevant of what tyres you have on.

I don't see your point, people on this forum advocate good tyres because of the obvious safety benefits. I don't think anyones seen pictures of a nova on its roof in the ditch and gone "well obviously the drivers epic skills were let down by those ling longs"

You have no point to make.
 
jej_knowles said:
Is the concept so difficult to grasp?
Every tyre has its limits that is fact. If you are not in tune with your vehicle/tyre combination and the limits of that arrangement you will thoughtlessly surpass the limits and find yourself out of control and in an accident scenario not because the Tyres are to blame but the overzealous driver.
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Who are you trying to convince? You really don't need to justify your putting rubbish tyres on your car to us.

Rubbish tyres are more dangerous than decent ones. That is a fact.

Your point is irrelevant, because a good driver wouldn't put rubbish tyres on their car in the first place. ;)
 
This thread isn't about Dunlop tyres being better than ling long Tyres as that is a given and at no point did I ever say otherwise! Get your head from up your arse and don't try to put me down on a point I never made. Read my original post and try to understand . Maybe leave it until tomorrow and maybe just maybe by then it will sink in to your thick skull :-)
 
jej_knowles said:
This thread isn't about Dunlop tyres being better than ling long Tyres as that is a given and at no point did I ever say otherwise! Get your head from up your arse and don't try to put me down on a point I never made. Read my original post and try to understand . Maybe leave it until tomorrow and maybe just maybe by then it will sink in to your thick skull :-)
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You haven't actually made any points.

You're more likely to crash if you have crap tyres.
You're more likely to crash if you're a crap driver.

The two factors are unrelated.
 
the problem on here is people instantly calling average tyres ditch finders because they read on the internet that they where terrible on one certain car once
 
Jono8 said:
jej_knowles - http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2012-Autobild-50-Tyre-Braking-Test.htm

The worst tyre takes 28 metres longer to stop in the wet compared to the best tyre. That will be on the same car going the same speed. 28 metres! 91+ feet! Just think about that and think about how big a difference that could make to avoiding an accident, death or injury.

Just think about that for a while and then you will realise how stupid your argument is.
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Oh dear, my car used to have a LingLong, a Wanli, and a couple of tyres which looked worse, on which the writing was illegible and looked like some of the letters weren't English. :eek:

Love some of the cheap tyre manufacturer names... LingLong because it will take a long time to stop, Infinity because thats how long the stopping distance is, Rockstone because thats what they are made out of, Runway because thats what you'll need in front of you to stop safely, etc. :p
 
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jej_knowles said:
This thread isn't about Dunlop tyres being better than ling long Tyres as that is a given and at no point did I ever say otherwise! Get your head from up your arse and don't try to put me down on a point I never made. Read my original post and try to understand . Maybe leave it until tomorrow and maybe just maybe by then it will sink in to your thick skull :-)
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My you are an angry little man aren't you? Someone it would seem who only has ears for his own argument and simply puts down anyone, calling them thick or an idiot, when they don't seem acknowledge his childish and one dimensional point, a point that is vanishing up its own arse right now.

You do come across as shouty white van man. All the answers, all the reasons why everyone else is wrong, a sneer and a massive chip on your shoulder and an answer for the question that was never asked, or was debated and put to bed years ago. We get your angry man, but your point was simplistic and childish rants when people call you on it does support the people in glass houses mantra, not least when you seem to think we are all thick and idiotic.

Take a chill pill, you'll burst something, maybe your ditch finders?
 
Housey said:
My you are an angry little man aren't you? Someone it would seem who only has ears for his own argument and simply puts down anyone, calling them thick or an idiot, when they don't seem acknowledge his childish and one dimensional point, a point that is vanishing up its own arse right now.

You do come across as shouty white van man. All the answers, all the reasons why everyone else is wrong, a sneer and a massive chip on your shoulder and an answer for the question that was never asked, or was debated and put to bed years ago. We get your angry man, but your point was simplistic and childish rants when people call you on it does support the people in glass houses mantra, not least when you seem to think we are all thick and idiotic.

Take a chill pill, you'll burst something, maybe your ditch finders?
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Sorry guys i apologise if i was a little ott and you felt my frustration was undeserved but the thread has descended into little more than snobbish remarks about personal tyre choice and ridicule for claims i never made.
thanks to housey for the support dude i obviously talk utter nonsense all the time and will remember that in future i should keep my thoughts to myself..... yours sincerely jk (fully qualified bmw main dealer technician 5yrs vw technician 4yrs)
 
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Do vw and BMW often train service techs on the technical makeup of mainstream vs unknown/emerging tyres or the ability of those who use them?

I'm a fully qualified qs, I cannot single handedly build you a house or even tell you the best wall tie to use for your specific make up. I can however make sure it costs you as little as possible, as that is actually the core of my job.

To be fair I can see a point in there... somewhere, I just think you've made a non existent connection between tools and the ability of those using them
 
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Haggisman said:
So when you kill a kid who's run out in front of you, or slammed into the back of someone who did an emergency stop because you couldn't stop quickly enough because of your crap tyres, your defence will be "well, if I was driving a double decker bus, I would have hit you anyway"? :rolleyes:

And you still didn't answer my point - if you're going to drive really slowly everywhere, why do you need brakes that actually work?



And what exactly is a "sensible speed"?

I'm guessing anything over 20mph? Which excludes you from about 99% of the country's roads...
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I am SICK TO DEATH of hearing about urban double decker buses killing small children DON'T GET ME STARTED! :mad:

Oh wait, I've not heard any tales of heavy poor braking vehicles killing anyone in urban areas because they wont stop as fast as a highly tuned race car. :confused:

Maybe it's all BS! ;)

edit... Add to this trams.
Trams!! metal wheels on metal rails with all that weight? Ok, I want to stop next Friday I will put the brakes on Thursday!

OMG! what would Jeremy Clarkson say? a modern mode of transport that stops 100 times worse than the latest Porsche 911 and even that has the engine in the wrong place! :eek:

tisch tisch!
 
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jej_knowles said:
fully qualified bmw main dealer technician 5yrs vw technician 4yrs)
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Did you ever question why BMW put the same/similar brand premium/UHP tyres on a 116i as they do on a 335i M Sport? Or why VW will fit premium brand tyres to a VW UP as well as a Golf R?

By your reasoning (especially with regards to your Aygo/M3 example) they could just fit linglong tyres to the 116i / UP and just tell people to drive more within the cars capability....
 
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