Aspirations for children

Stress is another physical consequence of time spent in child care. Sarah Watamura and her colleagues (2003) measured levels of salivary cortisol (a steroid used as an indicator of general stress) in groups of infants and toddlers who received care either in their homes or in child-care centres. Of those in child care, 35 percent of the infants and 71 percent of the toddlers showed a rise in cortisol across the day. Of those receiving care in their homes, however, 71 percent of the infants and 64 percent of the toddlers showed decreases in cortisol levels.
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This quote is somewhat interesting in that it seems to deliberately obfuscate the figures. Notice that when talking about children in child care it gives the figures for a rise in cortisol levels whilst for those at home it gives the figures for a fall in cortisol levels. It makes any comparison impossible.

If we make the assumption that if cortisol levels don't fall, they rise then you have the following:

Rise in children in child care: Toddlers 71% Infants 35%
Rise in children at home: Toddlers 46% Infants 29%

However it doesn't really give figures to say how much they rise so again, it is pretty meaningless. In addition there is no link to studies showing that a rise is actually harmful.
 
RDM said:
This quote is somewhat interesting in that it seems to deliberately obfuscate the figures. Notice that when talking about children in child care it gives the figures for a rise in cortisol levels whilst for those at home it gives the figures for a fall in cortisol levels. It makes any comparison impossible.

If we make the assumption that if cortisol levels don't fall, they rise then you have the following:

Rise in children in child care: Toddlers 71% Infants 35%
Rise in children at home: Toddlers 46% Infants 29%

However it doesn't really give figures to say how much they rise so again, it is pretty meaningless. In addition there is no link to studies showing that a rise is actually harmful.
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WG38kAv.png

Morning-to-afternoon increases in cortisol concentrations for infants and toddlers at child care: Age differences and behavioral correlates

By:Watamura, SE (Watamura, SE); Donzella, B (Donzella, B); Alwin, J (Alwin, J); Gunnar, MR (Gunnar, MR)

CHILD DEVELOPMENT

Volume: 74

Issue: 4

Pages: 1006-1020

DOI: 10.1111/1467-8624.00583

Published: JUL-AUG 2003
 
I would hope my daughter would become a high flying business woman. Given that I'm in finance though, she'll probably do the exact opposite and join Save the weeds or something.
 
LateX'Dog said:
WG38kAv.png

Morning-to-afternoon increases in cortisol concentrations for infants and toddlers at child care: Age differences and behavioral correlates

By:Watamura, SE (Watamura, SE); Donzella, B (Donzella, B); Alwin, J (Alwin, J); Gunnar, MR (Gunnar, MR)

CHILD DEVELOPMENT

Volume: 74

Issue: 4

Pages: 1006-1020

DOI: 10.1111/1467-8624.00583

Published: JUL-AUG 2003
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Disturbingly goes against what you stated for the year 0-1 agegroup, the stress hormone seems to drop significantly compared with the homegroup. Thats the opposite of your initial issues with childvare under one age.

They overlap, all these pieces of evidence, with some groups suggesting detriment for various agegroups and others suggesting benefits, in a mismash pattern.
 
Hikari Kisugi said:
Disturbingly goes against what you stated for the year 0-1 agegroup, the stress hormone seems to drop significantly compared with the homegroup. Thats the opposite of your initial issues with childvare under one age.

They overlap, all these pieces of evidence, with some groups suggesting detriment for various agegroups and others suggesting benefits, in a mismash pattern.
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The figures show that if your child is in child care they are more stressed as infants and toddlers. Not too sure how you can confuse that?
 
LateX'Dog said:
The figures show that if your child is in child care they are more stressed as infants and toddlers. Not too sure how you can confuse that?
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You are incorrect.
The childcare figures you published as per this table.
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Show that below 14 months you levels drop. You are less stressed in childcare, which is the exact opposite of what you were suggesting, which is exactly what I stated.

For the record, I actually think children should be at home with mum for the first 2 to 3 years of life, then playgroup and then nursery and the primary school. This is how we are raising our daughter.
Selectively republishing results and quoting the bits you like isn't the best way to achieve it. That why I am arguing against certain points you make, as you appear to be whitewashing with data which doesn't support what you are stating.

You've yet to answer the OP. Specifically your aspirations for your child. I don't know if you actually have either.
'Do what they want to' doesn't fit the OPs request, it was quite specific.
 
Yes, levels drop after 14 months. However, the absolute levels of cortisol are still elevated as compared to the home-care group.

I guess we're just arguing tiny points now, and which ever way you look at it, we both agree that staying at home is better than being in daycare.
 
dowie said:
well its not needed for a start... there might well be relatively high youth unemployment but the majority are gainfully employed and contributing to the economy, for people in professions or competitive careers you completely mess up their progression for a year. Its also rather patronising to just include young people if there are non-military options - any reason why older people can't do community service too if a 25 yr old has to? As a self employed person would your business be fine with you taking a year out? Would you be happy to do it if it was introduced for everyone who has never done national service? How about a young person struggling with a new start up?

overall you lose the tax revenue for an entire year from everyone going through the thing plus you have to spend a load to implement the scheme... the benefit from it is marginal... yes you get some 'tax' back from the income you've just forked out to these newly minted temporary civil servants/service personnel but its still a cost overall and just adding to the already large deficit we're trying to get out of

the other issues are people who already make some contribution to society - whats the better use of a junior doctor opposed to the military - working in A&E or doing some 'community service'... presumably a farcical series of exemptions then have to be made? What about an evil banker who pays enough in tax to pay for several nurse's salaries... do we still take him out of the workforce for a year to do his bit for society by helping out in an old folks home?
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If it worked like this it would be brilliant:

1. Primary School
2. Secondary School
3. 6th form AS/A Levels
4. National Military Service - 3 years.
5. Career / University

Think about it. The Armed Forces teaches you a lot of things, and some of them are very valuable in the workplace especially in a corporate atmosphere. I would definetly hire a 25 year old with 3 years of military experience vs someone straight out of University.
 
LateX'Dog said:
Yes, levels drop after 14 months. However, the absolute levels of cortisol are still elevated as compared to the home-care group.

I guess we're just arguing tiny points now, and which ever way you look at it, we both agree that staying at home is better than being in daycare.
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You are still reading it incorrectly, the levels are higher after fourteen months, they are actually lower as the day progresses in the infant group. Its a negative level.
This might be due to the routinue involved in daycare, as they are left there at the same time each day, so they have daily cyclical patterns, the exact same as is seen in adults.

They are using cortisone levels as an indicator of stress when it is a slow working hormone. The science simply isn't great. It looks like psychologists have taken a grasp of biology and applied it to suit their needs.
I dislike lazy science painted over entire systems to try to prove they are 'bad'.
 
Hikari Kisugi said:
You are still reading it incorrectly, the levels are higher after fourteen months,
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Higher then what? I'm talking about Home v Day Care in both Toddler and Infants related to the table and graph posted above. Both of which show that infants and toddlers in day care are more stressed then with home care.

they are actually lower as the day progresses in the infant group. Its a negative level.
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Yes they are lower, but they are still higher then home care....:confused:

What are you trying to get at, because I'm really failing at grasping what your saying.
 
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