eSRAM the reason Xbox One struggles with 1080p?

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You can't take away from the fundamental difference in GPU but (and it's a big but) if the eSRAM can narrow or even negate the DDR3 vs 5 bandwidth problem generally as devs become more skilled in using it that could be one element that could be broadly similar.

MS are supposedly releasing 8% of the GPU that had been ring fenced for Kinect, which closes the gap a little (based on current performance, I assume PS4 didn't have that handicap in the first place).

I seem to remember just before release the Xbone CPU got a 10% speed bump to 1.75GHz vs 1.6GHz (we think) for PS4. There was also a small speed bump of around 6% for the GPU speed from 800MHz to 853MHz. Presumably these increases help with internal bandwidth a llittle as well.

Whilst non of this would mean the XO catches up with PS4 all up, might it not close the gap enough for average "bod" to have a tough time telling the difference on screen in a game unless they were running side by side (assuming if it allows XO to hit 1080p/60 for "most" games going forward)?

I don't know the answer, just putting it out there that there has been some other stuff to consider other than just GPU spec. Whether the speed bumps etc. make a difference in time is another matter. Someone way more technical than I may have a more detailed opinion.
 
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I heard the gpu in the wii u's tablet is the same as the xbones but slight overclocked?

I dunno what Nintendo were thinking when they made that thing and Microsoft releasing a slightly faster console than the wii.


Thank god for sony
 
Macro said:
I seem to remember just before release the Xbone CPU got a 10% speed bump to 1.75GHz vs 1.6GHz (we think) for PS4. There was also a small speed bump of around 6% for the GPU speed from 800MHz to 853MHz. Presumably these increases help with internal bandwidth a llittle as well.
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I don't know what speed the PS4 CPU is, but it's either faster than 1.75GHz, or it has more CPU transistors on the die (assuming architecture is basically the same) as it outperforms the CPU in the XB1. Unless of course the RAM speed is holding back the XB1 CPU but I doubt it.

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/PS4-CPU-More-Powerful-Than-Xbox-One-CPU-According-Benchmark-Test-61203.html
 
Needles said:
So a firmware update and an sdk update can overcome an inferior GPU (vastly in some parts), slow memory and a small esram cache that is not suited to 1080p.

Nonsense!

All the new sdk and firmware etc will do is help the X1 achieve closer to its potential, something that is determined by the silicon ...... silicon that is inferior to the PS4.


Also those believing that PS4 libraries etc will stay still and not progress are daft, as the X1 improves in that area as does the PS4.


The X1 will always have inferior graphics and performance of multiplatform titles.
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Where did I say anything of the sort, I have said from day one its obviously the PS4 has more power, we are purely talking about what is the best way to get the most out of the hardware it has.
 
Macro said:
Whilst non of this would mean the XO catches up with PS4 all up, might it not close the gap enough for average "bod" to have a tough time telling the difference on screen in a game unless they were running side by side (assuming if it allows XO to hit 1080p/60 for "most" games going forward)?
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The GPU differences below will never change. This is most likely why we are seeing differences rather than the slower memory / esram.

X1 GPU:
768 Shaders
48 Texture units
16 ROPS
2 ACE/ 16 queues

PS4 GPU:
1152 Shaders +50%
72 Texture units +50%
32 ROPS + 100%
8 ACE/64 queues +400%
 
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Johnnytoxic said:
The GPU differences below will never change. This is most likely why we are seeing differences rather than the slower memory / esram.

X1 GPU:
768 Shaders
48 Texture units
16 ROPS
2 ACE/ 16 queues

PS4 GPU:
1152 Shaders +50%
72 Texture units +50%
32 ROPS + 100%
8 ACE/64 queues +400%
Click to expand...

Yep, the PS4 GPU is not slightly more powerful but substantially more powerful. Nothing is going to close this gap, they can increase it by 8% all they want but that's only a few FPS here or there. The X1 performance will increase as devs become more accustomed to the hardware but at the same time the exact same will happen with the PS4.
 
An Exception said:
I don't know what speed the PS4 CPU is, but it's either faster than 1.75GHz, or it has more CPU transistors on the die (assuming architecture is basically the same) as it outperforms the CPU in the XB1. Unless of course the RAM speed is holding back the XB1 CPU but I doubt it.

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/PS4-CPU-More-Powerful-Than-Xbox-One-CPU-According-Benchmark-Test-61203.html
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Hmmm, I thought the CPUs were fundamentally the same with the exception that XO had a speed bump, and that article looks a little suspect in as much as the tests are very specific but yes, I take your point.
 
Johnnytoxic said:
The GPU differences below will never change. This is most likely why we are seeing differences rather than the slower memory / esram.

X1 GPU:
768 Shaders
48 Texture units
16 ROPS
2 ACE/ 16 queues

PS4 GPU:
1152 Shaders +50%
72 Texture units +50%
32 ROPS + 100%
8 ACE/64 queues +400%
Click to expand...
Yeah, I was just pondering that if some of the tweaks to XO help it get to 1080p/60 reliably the average bod may not notice the difference (similar to PS3/360 where even if the multiplat version looked better on 360 generally most players wouldn't notice or care outside of internet forums as they never run side by side).

We know the GPU is more powerful and have done since last year, it was more a rounded conversation if some of the other elements could help XO in other areas or not. I made a point of saying in my post XO is never going to catch the PS4 GPU. Like I've said elsewhere, all other things being equal you may as well buy the cheaper more powerful console if all you want is gaming and nothing unique to XO (live/the TV 2stuff" if it ever appears, XO exclusives/Kinect/apps etc) appeals to you.
 
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I feel like I'm in Groundhog Day, these conversations are destined to be repeated until the end of time (or more likely, until the next consoles come out in 8 years).
 
Johnnytoxic said:
The GPU differences below will never change. This is most likely why we are seeing differences rather than the slower memory / esram.

X1 GPU:
768 Shaders
48 Texture units
16 ROPS
2 ACE/ 16 queues

PS4 GPU:
1152 Shaders +50%
72 Texture units +50%
32 ROPS + 100%
8 ACE/64 queues +400%
Click to expand...

judging by the above figures, it's at least 50% more powerful in all areas.

so if with time say XB1 gets a 10% increase in graphics due to developers becoming more used to the systems and making games more efficient.

theoretically then wouldn't we expect at least a 15% increase on the PS4 so with time the margin is going to increase not decrease.

because if you make one more efficient surely the other one will also get more efficient but since it's more powerful to begin with it makes a far bigger difference to it than it does the weaker system?

or does it not work that way?


like the way a loan works, say if you have a 10K loan and a 500K loan a 10% increase on 10K is nothing compared to a 10% increase on 500K
 
Psycho Sonny said:
judging by the above figures, it's at least 50% more powerful in all areas.

so if with time say XB1 gets a 10% increase in graphics due to developers becoming more used to the systems and making games more efficient.

theoretically then wouldn't we expect at least a 15% increase on the PS4 so with time the margin is going to increase not decrease.

because if you make one more efficient surely the other one will also get more efficient but since it's more powerful to begin with it makes a far bigger difference to it than it does the weaker system?

or does it not work that way?


like the way a loan works, say if you have a 10K loan and a 500K loan a 10% increase on 10K is nothing compared to a 10% increase on 500K
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Course it work that way, look at what they got out of GTA5 a the very end of the previous consoles.
Thing is I believe that PS4 pretty much has all of its hardware power available to Devs right now, but they will still get more and more out of it.

Thing is if they are hgaving problems with Dev'ing for XO, then you might see a bigger increase ( in RELATIVE TERMS) to the hardware, seeing as XO is doing a bit more in terms of OS, where MS over time will no doubt slim that down, and devs and Dev tools get better for it.

Doesnt matter how you cut it, PS4 will still have more "number" raw power.
 
Davey_Pitch said:
I feel like I'm in Groundhog Day, these conversations are destined to be repeated until the end of time (or more likely, until the next consoles come out in 8 years).
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Indeed, I appreciate that the developers' comments are what led to this thread being started, but really we're just repeating what we've known since day one. The PS4 is more powerful.

Quite what the percentage gains that developers might get out of either console (and it's all pure guesswork anyway) has to do with it, I don't know. It's just another thread of people throwing around various figures trying to explain something they don't seem to really understand, quite frankly.
 
Whilst the PS4 is more powerful I don't think we'll see any massive differences between the best looking PS4 exclusives and best looking XB1 exclusives.

The new consoles are more like PC's now and whilst devs can get more out of consoles if you take a look at the difference in a £250 GPU and a £400 GPU on PC, you're talking only 10-15fps difference sometimes and that's on mid to high end hardware and these console GPU's aren't exactly great.
 
Suarez7 said:
Whilst the PS4 is more powerful I don't think we'll see any massive differences between the best looking PS4 exclusives and best looking XB1 exclusives.

The new consoles are more like PC's now and whilst devs can get more out of consoles if you take a look at the difference in a £250 GPU and a £400 GPU on PC, you're talking only 10-15fps difference sometimes and that's on mid to high end hardware and these console GPU's aren't exactly great.
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that's because they are very inefficient compared to consoles.

you cannot compare pc's and consoles like that.

put a £400 GPU in a PS4 and a £250 GPU in the PS4 and i guarantee you the difference wont be 10-15 fps because when developers design for a console they are designing for 1 specific set of hardware.

on the pc they are designing for 100,000,000 different combinations of hardware.
 
Or another way of looking at it. A £250 PC equivalent GPU in a console, would likely outperform a £400 GPU in a PC. It's all about being able to code at or close to the metal.

PC's offer allot more performance early on this gen because neither MS or Sony went crazy with the hardware specs (they actually wanted to turn a profit I guess). However the PC only offers more power because it has the brute force.
 
Davey_Pitch said:
I feel like I'm in Groundhog Day, these conversations are destined to be repeated until the end of time (or more likely, until the next consoles come out in 8 years).
Click to expand...

I was reading this thread without paying attention to any of the names until someone mentioned to link and run, and I saw the line

If you are sensitive to the subject matter. It's probably best to participate in threads that won't upset you, instead of derailing an otherwise well mannered technical discussion.
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I'm sure I've seen this before somewhere...eyes to the left, looks at the name ! BAM!

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=25574793&postcount=58

It's like the same song different tune!

Sorry OP, but I see a pattern here. :D
 
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Davey_Pitch said:
I feel like I'm in Groundhog Day, these conversations are destined to be repeated until the end of time (or more likely, until the next consoles come out in 8 years).
Click to expand...

Yet last time it was ok to go on endlessly about the 360 being more powerful etc etc...... :rolleyes:
 
...again :rolleyes:

I do:
...buy a game and fancy playing and hopefully enjoy it (on either system).

I don't:
...stand around in-game scrutinizing the scenery. Everything is usually moving about to fast for me to care too much.

Just enjoy them both or which ever is your personal preference, or spend a fortune on a high end PC and the regular money-letting updates :)
 
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