Sanctions to hit part time workers

Caged said:
I don't know if you missed a word out or what because it's not clear if you're in support of the idea of a person working in an office earning the same as a street sweeper or not. But it's hard to say if they are worth more without knowing what the actual job is. Not all office jobs involve particularly marketable skills at all - I consider the ability to wield a broom as much of a skill as picking up a phone and reading a script.

Why does someone who goes out and sweeps the roads and picks up litter not deserve to be able to earn a living wage from doing that full time? It's providing a valuable service that a lot of people are happy to claim they would have no objections to doing if they found themselves out of work.
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I think that's it. More people would be able to sweep the floors than would be able to do office type work, no matter how menial. Sweeper gets paid less as a result.

They do get a living wage though, minimum wage at 37ish hours a week. Plenty for a frugal existence.
 
Frightful Boar said:
I think that's it. More people would be able to sweep the floors than would be able to do office type work, no matter how menial. Sweeper gets paid less as a result.

They do get a living wage though, minimum wage at 37ish hours a week. Plenty for a frugal existence.
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No, it's not. Thats why minimum wage is topped up with benefits. Living wage is a little under £7.40 an hour iirc.
 
Woden said:
No, it's not. Thats why minimum wage is topped up with benefits. Living wage is a little under £7.40 an hour iirc.
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That's because people are too spoiled. You definitely CAN live on £6.00 an hour. You might not have any luxuries but you'll be able to not starve to death and afford soap. I can't believe I'm having to say this to adults.
 
Frightful Boar said:
That's because people are too spoiled. You definitely CAN live on £6.00 an hour. You might not have any luxuries but you'll be able to not starve to death and afford soap. I can't believe I'm having to say this to adults.
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yeah theres no where you can live on £6.00 an hour south of newcastle, what if you live in london and thats where you have been your whole life, your community links family etc, you can no way afford to live there on £6p/h business should pay a living wage, nothing else, we shouldn't need the government to top up peoples wages. What with the tories causing a housing bubble and years of no meaningful house building people are being priced out of pretty much everywhere but the holes up north
 
Rent, gas, leccy, council tax, travel to work. That £6 an hour is already long gone.

At £6 an hour it would take me 8 hours just to buy my months bus ticket.
 
Frightful Boar said:
Plenty for a frugal existence.
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And I think that's fundamentally the problem. People can have a frugal existence by sitting at home and playing the benefits system.

Making work pay shouldn't be about increasing the size of the stick for people who either can't or choose not to participate. I don't know enough about the subject to suggest what shape this should take - free evening courses to help people improve their skills? A huge increase to the minimum wage (which has the danger of just lifting up the cost of everything until it cancels itself out)? All of them have their own sets of problems. I really think the issue of low pay being topped up from government pots needs to be addressed though.
 
MrMoonX said:
yeah theres no where you can live on £6.00 an hour south of newcastle, what if you live in london and thats where you have been your whole life, your community links family etc, you can no way afford to live there on £6p/h business should pay a living wage, nothing else, we shouldn't need the government to top up peoples wages. What with the tories causing a housing bubble and years of no meaningful house building people are being priced out of pretty much everywhere but the holes up north
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For God's sake, stop being such a victim.

You DON'T need the government to top up people's wages, you need people to have more get-up-and-go.

I've lived on 4 continents and the UK gets by far the best care from its government of any country I've lived in and has by far the most ungrateful citizens.

Do you think jobs create themselves? They do not. People create them. Don't leave it up to your government to babysit you. Be your own man.
 
MrMoonX said:
we need a living wage not a minimum
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Oh the Labour BS tag line they like to trot out like other non-existent phrases like "Bedroom-Tax" "Cost of living Crisis" Crisis this and Crisis that, Milliband is an opportunistic ****** that who'd quite literately sell his grandmother for votes. And you drunk the cool-aid years ago, i remember you on these forums during the last election. You and your left wing buddies basically wanted a communist style tax system that would punish anyone who even dared have a decent wage
 
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Frightful Boar said:
That's because people are too spoiled. You definitely CAN live on £6.00 an hour. You might not have any luxuries but you'll be able to not starve to death and afford soap. I can't believe I'm having to say this to adults.
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Too spoiled??

So £6 an hour, say a 37.5 hour working week.
Thats 900 a month before Tax/NI
So...
£11,700 PA
897.88 After deductions

Council tax is what 90-150 a month
I pay around 100 a month for gas/electric
Water 30-50 a month
Rent is what 400-600

Thats before anything else.
I think most would be VERY hard pushed to live on £6 an hour.
That before any travel expenses to get to this £6 an hour job.
 
Frightful Boar said:
For God's sake, stop being such a victim.

You DON'T need the government to top up people's wages, you need people to have more get-up-and-go.

I've lived on 4 continents and the UK gets by far the best care from its government of any country I've lived in and has by far the most ungrateful citizens.

Do you think jobs create themselves? They do not. People create them. Don't leave it up to your government to babysit you. Be your own man.
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I said you don't need the government to too up wages people should be paid enough to live outside of poverty in even the lowest class jobs. Get up and go isn't a factor, lack of opportunity and social problems are. Maybe you should read what I said, employers need to pay more and stop being greedy, whilst the government should stop being such a pussy when it comes to introducing a proper minimum wage
 
~Divine~Wind~ said:
Too spoiled??

So £6 an hour, say a 37.5 hour working week.
Thats 900 a month before Tax/NI
So...
£11,700 PA
897.88 After deductions

Council tax is what 90-150 a month
I pay around 100 a month for gas/electric
Water 30-50 a month
Rent is what 400-600

Thats before anything else.
I think most would be VERY hard pushed to live on £6 an hour.
That before any travel expenses to get to this £6 an hour job.
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Bah! I can see at this very moment rooms to rent in London for less than £100 per week with all bills included.

Excuses!
 
robgmun said:
Oh the Labour BS tag line they like to trot out like other non-existent phrases like "Bedroom-Tax" "Cost of living Crisis" Crisis this and Crisis that, Milliband is an opportunistic ****** that who'd quite literately sell his grandmother for votes. And you drunk the cool-aid years ago, i remember you on these forums during the last election. You and your left wing buddies basically wanted a communist style tax system that would punish anyone who even dared have a decent wage
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Lol why you making this party political ? I never will be and never have voted labour. The issue is poverty which quite frankly in one of the top economies in the world shouldn't be on the rise, the issue is that the poor/rich gap is growing at the expense of societies most vulnerable. Is this really the kind of world we want, where people are getting richer and the poor are being left to die. Why do people get so possessive over money? You only live once hoarding it achieves nothing
 
MrMoonX said:
I said you don't need the government to too up wages people should be paid enough to live outside of poverty in even the lowest class jobs. Get up and go isn't a factor, lack of opportunity and social problems are. Maybe you should read what I said, employers need to pay more and stop being greedy, whilst the government should stop being such a pussy when it comes to introducing a proper minimum wage
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It's the main factor. The lack of opportunity is because people expect other people to give them an opportunity instead of a) working for it or b) making their own opportunities.
 
Frightful Boar said:
It's the main factor. The lack of opportunity is because people expect other people to give them an opportunity instead of a) working for it or b) making their own opportunities.
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You really should learn about social policy as the evidence suggests otherwise. The lack of opportunity comes from being poor in the first place, the chances of having the facility to drag yourself out of it isn't there.

Go tell the slum dwellers in India that all they have to do to get out is have a bit of get up and go :rolleyes:
 
~Divine~Wind~ said:
Too spoiled??

So £6 an hour, say a 37.5 hour working week.
Thats 900 a month before Tax/NI
So...
£11,700 PA
897.88 After deductions

Council tax is what 90-150 a month
I pay around 100 a month for gas/electric
Water 30-50 a month
Rent is what 400-600

Thats before anything else.
I think most would be VERY hard pushed to live on £6 an hour.
That before any travel expenses to get to this £6 an hour job.
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I was going to post the same thing but with these people it's pointless. They are sorted and have good jobs etc so everyone else must be doing nothing.

I had to sign on again today because my 0 hour contract has become a joke since christmas, Was doing 40-50 hours a week before that.

I wish I didn't have to as it's a nightmare working with the job center, They have a whole new system apparently with all new names for stuff but in reality it's just the same old system, I said to the advisor why waste so much money on rubbish like that instead of offering decent courses to help people get work and she agreed with me. She said they all say the same in the office but the idiots at the top hire think tanks to waste everyone's time and money doing uneeded stuff.
 
Frightful Boar said:
More whinging from people who want others to pick up after them.

Everyone can afford to live on minimum wage, claiming otherwise is the snivelling of a spoiled first worlder.

The wonderful thing is that you can control how much you earn. If you don't like your current situation, do something about it.
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Have you ever had to live on minimum wage? I seriously doubt it.

If you're working 60 hours a week in a minimum wage job and you have absolutely no qualifications, what exactly can you do about it? Nothing, odds are.

A. You can't afford to retain
B. You don't have time to wipe your arse, let alone retrain.

You sound like a right spoilt middle class ball juggler.
 
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