What's the trade off with extra RAM ?

[Papablu]

I did a search but couldn't find what I was looking for here so can anyone tell me the answer to these questions :

I'm getting the Infinity Tesseract and it comes with 8GB of RAM. This is obviously enough for gaming right now but I want to upgrade it to 16GB to make sure I'm covered for the next few years.

If I remember correctly, a little while ago I read somewhere that upgrading the RAM would mean that a compromise would have to be made on the OC.

If this is true, how much of a compromise would it be and is it worth the trade off ?

How long would 8GB last me if I stuck with it, at a guess, how long before games will require more than 8GB ?

Thanks for reading.

 

[Cuchulain]

I did a search but couldn't find what I was looking for here so can anyone tell me the answer to these questions :

I'm getting the Infinity Tesseract and it comes with 8GB of RAM. This is obviously enough for gaming right now but I want to upgrade it to 16GB to make sure I'm covered for the next few years.

If I remember correctly, a little while ago I read somewhere that upgrading the RAM would mean that a compromise would have to be made on the OC.

If this is true, how much of a compromise would it be and is it worth the trade off ?

How long would 8GB last me if I stuck with it, at a guess, how long before games will require more than 8GB ?

Thanks for reading.

I might be wrong but I thought it was the amount of DIMM's that hampered overclocking, in this case, you could just buy 2 x 8gb ones.

 

[spoffle]

The compromise is usually due to filling all the available RAM slots on a motherboard, as it'll stress the memory controller which limits your overclockability, it doesn't always happen, however to mitigate it to some extent you could just buy 2x 8GB RAM modules so that all the slots aren't occupied.

Come on Cuchulain, don't quote the first post when there's no other posts in the thread!

 

[Papablu]

Ah I see, so I'll definitely get the 16GB in 2x8 then, that's reassuring to know.

Thank you both very much, I appreciate your help.

 

[almighty15]

8Gb will be fine for games for the next 10 years.

 

[spoffle]

8Gb will be fine for games for the next 10 years.

NOPE.

 

[almighty15]

NOPE.

Err YEP.... Consoles are the deciding factor when it comes to all out memory use in games and they're simply not a decent enough leap in the memory department to cause a massive shift in memory requirements.

Most console games will only be using 1-2Gb as main RAM and everything else will be put to VRAM.

So seriously, use a bit of sense....

 

[spoffle]

Err YEP.... Consoles are the deciding factor when it comes to all out memory use in games and they're simply not a decent enough leap in the memory department to cause a massive shift in memory requirements.

Most console games will only be using 1-2Gb as main RAM and everything else will be put to VRAM.

So seriously, use a bit of sense....

"Err" NOPE. The PS3 has 256MB of system RAM, ergo 256MB of RAM was enough for 10 years from when the PS3 launched. It's 16x the RAM if you take in to account the 256MB VRAM on the PS3. if you don't think 512MB to 8GB is a decent enough of a leap, then you're living in pretend land.

The RAM they have is unified, there isn't "Main RAM" and "VRAM" it's a single pool.

Consoles are also not the deciding factor when it comes to all out memory usage in games, at all, otherwise multi-platform games wouldn't have used more than 512MB of RAM on a PC in the last 8 years. In fact, PC games were using more than 512MB of RAM/VRAM combined over 10 years ago.

You have no idea what you're talking about, so please stop talking rubbish.

 

[almighty15]

"Err" NOPE. The PS3 has 256MB of system RAM, ergo 256MB of RAM was enough for 10 years from when the PS3 launched. It's 16x the RAM if you take in to account the 256MB VRAM on the PS3. if you don't think 512MB to 8GB is a decent enough of a leap, then you're living in pretend land.

The RAM they have is unified, there isn't "Main RAM" and "VRAM" it's a single pool.

Consoles are also not the deciding factor when it comes to all out memory usage in games, at all, otherwise multi-platform games wouldn't have used more than 512MB of RAM on a PC in the last 8 years. In fact, PC games were using more than 512MB of RAM/VRAM combined over 10 years ago.

You have no idea what you're talking about, so please stop talking rubbish.

Do not talk to me about the ins and outs on PS3's memory.... I know more about that machine then you'll ever know.

And although PS4's memory is unified it'll still labelled as RAM and VRAM in the systems page tables.

And PS3 and 360 did not have access to 512mb of memory.

And that comment about using more then 512Mb of RAM combined is laughable.... OP is purely talking about system RAM, not graphics memory so why are you even factoring that in the equation?

 

[spoffle]

Do not talk to me about the ins and outs on PS3's memory.... I know more about that machine thAn you'll ever know.

Somehow I doubt that, as the claim that 8GB will be fine for games for the next 10 years was nonsense, based on 256MB of RAM being fine for the next 10 years from when the PS3 was released.

If the consoles dictated the required RAM then that should have been the same.

And although PS4's memory is unified it'll still labelled as RAM and VRAM in the systems page tables.

That's largely irrelevant.

And PS3 and 360 did not have access to 512mb of memory.

Yes, and this undermines your point even more, but you can't even see it.

And that comment about using more thAn 512Mb of RAM combined is laughable.... OP is purely talking about system RAM, not graphics memory so why are you even factoring that in the equation?

Why is it laughable? You brought graphics RAM in to it by talking about the unified RAM of consoles.

Additionally, you've ignored the part where I've pointed out that games have been using more than 512MB of SYSTEM RAM since the PS3 came out, ergo consoles DO NOT decide the out and out RAM usage of games. That's just utter BS and you need to stop spouting it.

Do you realise how much you're contradicting yourself? I don't think you do.

 

[almighty15]

Somehow I doubt that, as the claim that 8GB will be fine for games for the next 10 years was nonsense, based on 256MB of RAM being fine for the next 10 years from when the PS3 was released.
Do you realise how much you're contradicting yourself? I don't think you do.

Maybe try running console ports at console settings and you'll see the RAM and VRAM requirements go down

It's nice comparing memory useage on an apples and oranges basis.

8Gb of RAM on PS3, Minus the 3Gb consumed by the OS = 5Gb useable to developers.

Textures and graphics assets will get priority so expect 3-3.5Gb of that to be used for 'VRAM' and the remaining 1.5-2Gb to be used as 'RAM'

Last time I checked running a console port at console settings doesn't consume that much more memory then the consoles have.

Even if you assume absolute worst case scenario and some ultra crappy coding on the developer side and say a 3x increase bringing that console game over to PC and you'll still be within 8Gb with 4.5-6Gb of memory used.

So as I said, 8Gb would be plenty.... until the NEXT set of console release and get settled which could take around 10 years.

 

[Subliminal Aura]

8Gb will be fine for games for the next 10 years.

o_O

NOPE.

Spot on

 

[tbyeah]

Maybe try running console ports at console settings and you'll see the RAM and VRAM requirements go down

It's nice comparing memory useage on an apples and oranges basis.

8Gb of RAM on PS3, Minus the 3Gb consumed by the OS = 5Gb useable to developers.

Textures and graphics assets will get priority so expect 3-3.5Gb of that to be used for 'VRAM' and the remaining 1.5-2Gb to be used as 'RAM'

Last time I checked running a console port at console settings doesn't consume that much more memory then the consoles have.

Even if you assume absolute worst case scenario and some ultra crappy coding on the developer side and say a 3x increase bringing that console game over to PC and you'll still be within 8Gb with 4.5-6Gb of memory used.

So as I said, 8Gb would be plenty.... until the NEXT set of console release and get settled which could take around 10 years.

Not all games are ports? Some games that are initially developed for PC or are properly optimised make use of 8GB of RAM.

Why do you assume that after 10 years where the RAM needed for gaming has increased ~10-15fold, the increase will just stop?

I guess 2GB of VRAM will be fine too, and that a 3770K will also?

 

[spoffle]

Maybe try running console ports at console settings and you'll see the RAM and VRAM requirements go down

Console ports don't exist, and why would you turn the settings down to match the console settings?

How on earth is that a console dictating memory usage?

It's nice comparing memory useage on an apples and oranges basis.

Well that's probably why you're doing it.

8Gb of RAM on PS3, Minus the 3Gb consumed by the OS = 5Gb useable to developers.

PS4, and that's not completely fixed.

Textures and graphics assets will get priority so expect 3-3.5Gb of that to be used for 'VRAM' and the remaining 1.5-2Gb to be used as 'RAM'

I know how VRAM works, don't try and lecture me on it.

Last time I checked running a console port at console settings doesn't consume that much more memory then the consoles have.

Console ports don't actually exist, however, why would we turn the settings down? You stated the consoles dictate the RAM requirements, you didn't say "if you turn down all your settings".

When you keep saying "then" you actually mean "than", just a pro-tip there for you.

Even if you assume absolute worst case scenario and some ultra crappy coding on the developer side and say a 3x increase bringing that console game over to PC and you'll still be within 8Gb with 4.5-6Gb of memory used.

Crappy coding doesn't solely result in RAM usage going up.

Just no.

So as I said, 8Gb would be plenty.... until the NEXT set of console release and get settled which could take around 10 years.

The same way 256MB of RAM was fine for the past 8-9 years, right?

 

[spoffle]

Not all games are ports? Some games that are initially developed for PC or are properly optimised make use of 8GB of RAM.

Why do you assume that after 10 years where the RAM needed for gaming has increased ~10-15fold, the increase will just stop?

I guess 2GB of VRAM will be fine too, and that a 3770K will also?

No games are actually "ports", it's a term used by people who are either being lazy, or are uneducated on the situation.

 

[almighty15]

Not all games are ports? Some games that are initially developed for PC or are properly optimised make use of 8GB of RAM.

Why do you assume that after 10 years where the RAM needed for gaming has increased ~10-15fold, the increase will just stop?

I guess 2GB of VRAM will be fine too, and that a 3770K will also?

With games going very threaded a 3770k will last for years... ask the people who own the now 5.5yr old i7 920 if they feel it's under powered on today's games?

All of the heavy lifting that CPU's used to have to do is now slowly being moved over to GPU compute.

Most PC games, even the latest Metro Last Light barely uses 1.5Gb of system RAM.

RAM use will level out... if a last gen game uses 100mb of system RAm and 250mb of VRAM and you move it over to a next generation machine the VRAM consumption is going to increase at a much much higher rate then the system RAM would.

When PS3 came out 2Gb was pretty much the standard for the average gaming PC..... fast forward 6 years and you could pretty much any game on 3Gb of system RAM.... so where's this massive increase?

It's a completely different story when talking about VRAM and how that has changed over the last 6 years.

 

[almighty15]

No games are actually "ports", it's a term used by people who are either being lazy, or are uneducated on the situation.

You better sign up to Beyond3d Forums then and tell the developers that use the word 'port' that they're lazy and uneducated.

 

[spoffle]

With games going very threaded a 3770k will last for years... ask the people who own the now 5.5yr old i7 920 if they feel it's under powered on today's games?

All of the heavy lifting that CPU's used to have to do is now slowly being moved over to GPU compute.

Just no.

Most PC games, even the latest Metro Last Light barely uses 1.5Gb of system RAM.

So how is this an example of consoles dictating RAM usage? 1.5GB is 6x the system RAM than the PS3 has.

RAM use will level out... if a last gen game uses 100mb of system RAm and 250mb of VRAM and you move it over to a next generation machine the VRAM consumption is going to increase at a much much higher rate THAN the system RAM would.

What last gen game used 100MB of System RAM and 250MB of VRAM that wasn't a very visually basic game?

When PS3 came out 2Gb was pretty much the standard for the average gaming PC..... fast forward 6 years and you could pretty much any game on 3Gb of system RAM.... so where's this massive increase?

Yet you claim consoles dictate system RAM...

Also, just no, I couldn't game on a system with 3GB of RAM at all, you're living in pretend land.

Look at Skyrim, it would crash and run badly because it needed more than the 2GB of RAM available to it for being a 32Bit exe, hence the community patch that allowed it to use well over 2GB of RAM, and then the official one from Bethesda, and no I'm not talking about a modded Skyrim, I'm talking about the standard PC install with no mods.

It's a completely different story when talking about VRAM and how that has changed over the last 6 years.

Just no, once again.

 

[spoffle]

You better sign up to Beyond3d Forums then and tell the developers that use the word 'port' that they're lazy and uneducated.

They will be using it lazily though, if they're developers then they're being lazy.

Games aren't actually "ported", this is the reality of the situation. They are compiled for each individual platform that they are intended to be released on, they are not "ported" from one platform to another.

 

[almighty15]

Just no, once again.

I'll book mark this thread and get back to you in 10 years...