Speaker wire

marl said:
Have you ever listened to a 'top 5%' system?
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This is usually a suggestion made by audiophiles to defend their beliefs, that you can't comment if you don't have one of these systems.

It's irrelevant, these expensive systems still adhere to the same material properties and physics that the lower end cheaper ones do.

In short, it's nonsense, and a basic understanding of basic physics should be enough to understand that it's nonsense.
 
spoffle said:
This is usually a suggestion made by audiophiles to defend their beliefs, that you can't comment if you don't have one of these systems.

It's irrelevant, these expensive systems still adhere to the same material properties and physics that the lower end cheaper ones do.

In short, it's nonsense, and a basic understanding of basic physics should be enough to understand that it's nonsense.
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So... you've never heard one!
 
marl said:
So... you've never heard one!
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Whether I've heard one or not is completely irrelevant. My stance is that I'm not going to confirm or deny it because it does not matter at all, because of the fact that human hearing and the way the brain interprets it is unreliable when trying to measure something like this.

People hear differences based on solely being told that something has been changed, despite the fact that it hasn't.

As I said, a basic understanding of physics is enough to know why it's nonsense. Material properties and physics do not change just because the cost of a system is significantly higher.

It simply doesn't work like that. Instead of pushing this angle, if you believe the nonsense, why don't you back it up?
 
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spoffle said:
Whether I've heard one or not is completely irrelevant. My stance is that I'm not going to confirm or deny it because it does not matter at all, because of the fact that human hearing and the way the brain interprets it is unreliable when trying to measure something like this.

People hear differences based on solely being told that something has been changed, despite the fact that it hasn't.

As I said, a basic understanding of physics is enough to know why it's nonsense. Material properties and physics do not change just because the cost of a system is significantly higher.

It simply doesn't work like that. Instead of pushing this angle, if you believe the nonsense, why don't you back it up?
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So... is it my imagination playing tricks on me when I say that I am completely 100% convinced... that the my favourite tracks sound significantly better when played through my PC when compared to my mobile phones loudspeaker?
 
marl said:
So... is it my imagination playing tricks on me when I say that I am completely 100% convinced... that the my favourite tracks sound significantly better when played through my PC when compared to my mobile phones loudspeaker?
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A wild strawman argument appears!

You know full well I wasn't saying that, how does that even relate to the "top 5% of systems", where "top" is usually a synonym for expensive.
 
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spoffle said:
A wild strawman argument appears!
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Whats a wild strawman...

But.. on a more serious note the initial reason I asked the question is because I have never heard a top 5% system myself but would love to have the opportunity to do so... I'd especially love to have a listen to a 110K set of Focal Grande Utopia's...

And are you really trying to say that although the physics might be the same, that there would be no measurable difference between a pair of these and my £50 creative PC speakers....
 
marl said:
Whats a wild strawman...

But.. on a more serious note the initial reason I asked the question is because I have never heard a top 5% system myself but would love to have the opportunity to do so... I'd especially love to have a listen to a 110K set of Focal Grande Utopia's...

And are you really trying to say that although the physics might be the same, that there would be no measurable difference between a pair of these and my £50 creative PC speakers....
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I'm not saying that at all, I'm saying that these "top 5% systems" are just all about expense and not quality. There is a limitation with physics on how "good" you can get something to sound, and realistically it's not based in the amount you pay.

For example, modern day amps, the only reason more expensive ones are touted to have better audio quality is because they output more power and are able to drive higher wattage speakers at higher volumes without clipping or distorting the sound.

If you were to take 2 amps, with a massive gulf between the prices, and run them both with the same speakers that are specced to run fine with the cheaper (and thus usually lower power output) amp, at the same volumes they would sound the same.

The point I'm trying to make is that to make sound, well sound good, it doesn't have to be expensive, it just has to be done properly, and doing it properly has little to nothing to do with expense in terms of material costs, labour and whatever else.

So these top 5% systems come with all sorts of audiophile BS to justify the prices of them, by making all sorts of BS claims that you either can't quantify, or that they simply can't prove about how the system works. Making claims that the metals used can actually adjust the sound in the same way an EQ would is just one of the BS claims they make.

I'm not at all saying that you can't get better sounding equipment, but it's so full of BS and audiophile "magic" nonsense that it's good to be highly skeptical of what they claim (based on the fact that not one audiophile has been able to prove their fantastic claims).
 
I did a 2 week long cable course whilst in the RAF. Needless to say after that I have not purchased expensive speaker cables again. The amount of power you can deliver down a few strands of copper driving a speaker is quite unbelievable tbh.
 
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My take on it is you need good quality cable for your main pair of speakers but if it's for surrounds it's not so important....or even noticeable.
I use 2 core mains flex for the surrounds in my system and you won't convince me otherwise :)
 
Personally, my take..

Just buy something that is nice quality. Physically. Something that wont kink or look crap, something with a bit of strength and integrity about it, but without costing the earth.

They are mostly gonna sound the same. But its just nice to have good quality things :).
 
MOOGLEYS said:
Have a read of this should tell you everything you need to know about speaker wire.

Speaker Wire Guide
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The sad thing is, there are pro installers around here that completely disregard all this information of favour of maintaining that speaker cable has a musicality to it, and different cables have different tonal properties that all link to an increase in audio quality. They claim they understand the science, but disregard it because their (golden) ears tell them there's a difference in quality and tonality between adequate cables, and magic audiophile grade cables.
 
They also fail to point out that an average speaker has a considerable amount of internal wiring in the coil and also the internal wiring of the amplifier should be considered but never is.

Most gains people experience from changing speaker wire is more than likely due to a re-tightening of connections and using fresh non corroded wire which will lower cable resistance. A quick re-trim of the existing wire and a tightening of connections would more than likely produce similar results.
 
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I have installed some incredible speakers in the last 6 months at a groundbreaking installation and we used expensive wire, mainly we went for thickness over any other "selling points". It sounds fantastic, but that is because the wire is well shielded and of a decent thickness....mainly because the speakers are bloody incredible and we are driving them off great amps and a superb mixing desk.

While the wire is important...it is not in my top 5 things that make a systems sound good.
 
Going by my cables course I bet if I separated 4 strands from my Van Damme 12 AWG cable, Then connected a speaker with just them 4 hair size strands of pure copper I would not be able to tell the difference between the speaker connected with just 4 strands or the the one with the full cable even at hefty outputs.
 
glen8 said:
Rainforest

Cable-Tex 42 Strand Speaker Wire

I've had Van Damme and QED in the past. Save your money and buy this. It's brilliant
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I have that very cable connecting my centre and surround speakers and it works perfectly even in 10m runs.

I only have the fronts connected with Van Damme as it came with the package. It does look nice though... :)
 
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