'Contact lost' with Malaysia Airlines plane

[Glaucus]

This strange to not even find anything for this long already

How do you work that out?
How about Adam air flight 574 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Air_Flight_574
It reads very much like this. Despite huge search effort. Including under water towed sonar to try and fond the wreckage, it wasn't till 11days after a part was found by a fisherman.

So in no way is this unprecedented like they say.


If you google news reports, then its very similar, wreckage spotted here, oh wait no. Wreckage and some survivors spotted way over here, oh wait maybe not.
http://aircrewbuzz.blogspot.co.uk/2007/01/what-happened-to-adam-air-flight-574.htm


And it's not like it was that long ago 1st of Jan 2007.

 

[Lysander]

So in no way is this unprecedented like they say.

When they're talking about it being unprecedented they're talking about the size of the aircraft. The 777 has three times the capacity of the 737-400.

 

[covenantuk]

Ok, so according to my pilot friend who frequents the professional pilot forums, the most likely scenario they've come up with at present given current info is:

Hijack. Either with or without cooperation of pilot(s).
Transponders/RF shutdown - requires VERY good knowledge of the aircraft, it's not just a couple of on-off buttons.
Possibly reduce cabin pressure to subdue passengers. It's difficult, but possible to do this enough to make the passengers pass out, especially if they're already trying to sleep as it was a "red-eye" flight
Aircraft flown west, avoiding radar coverage zones - it was only glimpsed on military radar, no civilian radar contact reported (again requires good knowledge of the area and navigation skills). Aiming to attack the US base on Diego Garcia

Plane either shot down or they ran out of fuel. Although Diego Garcia well within cruise range, the the military radar picked them up at a lower altitude so they would have been burning fuel faster.

 

[dannyjo22]

Ok, so according to my pilot friend who frequents the professional pilot forums, the most likely scenario they've come up with at present given current info is:


Transponders/RF shutdown - requires VERY good knowledge of the aircraft, it's not just a couple of on-off buttons.
Possibly reduce cabin pressure to subdue passengers. It's difficult, but possible to do this enough to make the passengers pass out, especially if they're already trying to sleep as it was a "red-eye" flight

And that's why Pprune is a pile of ****. The only good sources of information for technical information on pprune is in the locked sections that the general public cannot see.

 

[Westyfield2]

So I've just been catching up on today's news. Seems like a bit of progress maybe:

[Early on this morning]
The shutdown of two communication systems happened separately, which presumably means it was done so deliberately and not a catastrophic failure. The data reporting system, they believe, was shut down at 1:07 a.m. The transponder -- which transmits location and altitude -- shut down at 1:21 a.m.

The ACARS system that the airline use only transmits over VHF radio. They have not paid for the satellite subscription. So if it's out of radio range, then no data. The aircraft does however have SATCOM equipment fitted (just that ACARS can't use it).
The US are saying that the engine communications system kept 'pinging' for 4 hours, every 30mins, after the aircraft is meant to have disappeared. No data was transmitted, but the plane was sending the keep-alive signal like mobile phones do. So the aircraft can't have been completely destroyed. The US aren't saying what their source of this intelligence is (assuming it's either Spy satellites listening in to every signal on earth or they've raided the logs of Inmarsat/Iridium/Thuraya).

[Later this morning]
Military radar says it followed a proper flightpath (using known waypoints) heading towards the Andaman Islands.

 

[Diagro]

so it was stolen and then flown into a massive invisible alien ship so that the passengers could be experimented on.
I solved it, lets move on

 

[Greboth]

And that's why Pprune is a pile of ****. The only good sources of information for technical information on pprune is in the locked sections that the general public cannot see.

I am only keeping an eye on this thread for a source of info as it saves me searching many news websites. I know nothing about planes either so genuine question, are you saying that it is only a couple of switches for transponder / RF shutdown?

So I've just been catching up on today's news. Seems like a bit of progress maybe:

[Early on this morning]
The shutdown of two communication systems happened separately, which presumably means it was done so deliberately and not a catastrophic failure. The data reporting system, they believe, was shut down at 1:07 a.m. The transponder -- which transmits location and altitude -- shut down at 1:21 a.m.

The ACARS system that the airline use only transmits over VHF radio. They have not paid for the satellite subscription. So if it's out of radio range, then no data. The aircraft does however have SATCOM equipment fitted (just that ACARS can't use it).
The US are saying that the engine communications system kept 'pinging' for 4 hours, every 30mins, after the aircraft is meant to have disappeared. No data was transmitted, but the plane was sending the keep-alive signal like mobile phones do. So the aircraft can't have been completely destroyed. The US aren't saying what their source of this intelligence is (assuming it's either Spy satellites listening in to every signal on earth or they've raided the logs of Inmarsat/Iridium/Thuraya).

[Later this morning]
Military radar says it followed a proper flightpath (using known waypoints) heading towards the Andaman Islands.

I wonder how precisely timed the 'ping' is, as if it is accurate then surely they could compare the ping time to 'ping' received to work out a rough idea of where the plane was.

 

[Life's a bath]

Ok, so according to my pilot friend who frequents the professional pilot forums, the most likely scenario they've come up with at present given current info is:

Hijack. Either with or without cooperation of pilot(s).
Transponders/RF shutdown - requires VERY good knowledge of the aircraft, it's not just a couple of on-off buttons.
Possibly reduce cabin pressure to subdue passengers. It's difficult, but possible to do this enough to make the passengers pass out, especially if they're already trying to sleep as it was a "red-eye" flight
Aircraft flown west, avoiding radar coverage zones - it was only glimpsed on military radar, no civilian radar contact reported (again requires good knowledge of the area and navigation skills). Aiming to attack the US base on Diego Garcia

Plane either shot down or they ran out of fuel. Although Diego Garcia well within cruise range, the the military radar picked them up at a lower altitude so they would have been burning fuel faster.

I've just been looking at the wiki page for Diago Garcia and US bombing operations for "Operation Iraqi Freedom" flew from here during the Iraq war. So no doubt if it was a hijacking this would be the target.

My guess is that this place is that havily guarded 24/7 they saw it coming from miles away and oblitorated it before it got too close. When they realised the plane wasn't tracked since the south china sea they must have thought 'best not say anything, dont want to upset China'. Now they are sending false info out to keep searchers away while they clean up the mess..

more here http://americablog.com/2014/03/engine-data-suggests-malaysia-air-flight-may-flown-4-hours-transponder-lost.html

 

[balky12]

Evidence seems to lead towards pilot(s) having a part in this.

Terrorist attack seems hugely unlikely now. No debris, no one claiming the attack.
Plane was tracked off course, which doesnt happen by this magnitude by mistake.
Systems going offline at different times.
I thought it was virtually impossible nowadays for anyone to get into the cockpit?
No warnings/mayday messages from pilots.
Rapid/ Explosive cabin decompressure shouldnt mean a whole structural failure of the plane. There have been few before and plane remained in one piece. Also if this did happen back to the lack of debris?
Pilot suicide? Why they have 2/3 pilots nowadays, to stop this kinda thing happening if one of them has a bad day.

I am amazed that in today's age we cant 'accurately' find the last spot of a plane. They are currently searching an area the size of Portugal.

 

[Lysander]

Evidence seems to lead towards pilot(s) having a part in this.

This is the pilot with a 777 simulator in his own home. It's the most logical explanation.

 

[covenantuk]

And that's why Pprune is a pile of ****. The only good sources of information for technical information on pprune is in the locked sections that the general public cannot see.

So, if this isn't the case, please clarify where the shutoff for DRS, Transponder and the engine communication system are and how they're shut off?

 

[Tuppy_Glossop]

I've just been looking at the wiki page for Diago Garcia and US bombing operations for "Operation Iraqi Freedom" flew from here during the Iraq war. So no doubt if it was a hijacking this would be the target.

The US also flew Afghan missions out of U-Tapao in Thailand, which is considerably closer.

 

[balky12]

So, if this isn't the case, please clarify where the shutoff for DRS, Transponder and the engine communication system are and how they're shut off?

Now I am going by only what I read, but you can pull the fuses out behind the main communication board? The transponder units have to be easily accessable, as you have to change the codes incase of emergencies/ in different airspaces as far as I understand.

 

[balky12]

I've just been looking at the wiki page for Diago Garcia and US bombing operations for "Operation Iraqi Freedom" flew from here during the Iraq war. So no doubt if it was a hijacking this would be the target.

My guess is that this place is that havily guarded 24/7 they saw it coming from miles away and oblitorated it before it got too close. When they realised the plane wasn't tracked since the south china sea they must have thought 'best not say anything, dont want to upset China'. Now they are sending false info out to keep searchers away while they clean up the mess..

more here http://americablog.com/2014/03/engine-data-suggests-malaysia-air-flight-may-flown-4-hours-transponder-lost.html

I can't see the link between the Malaysian flight, with mainly all chinese and malaysian passengers, and the two immigrants, attacking a US army base? I'm not saying it's impossible though...

 

[touch]

The shutdown of two communication systems happened separately, which presumably means it was done so deliberately and not a catastrophic failure. The data reporting system, they believe, was shut down at 1:07 a.m. The transponder -- which transmits location and altitude -- shut down at 1:21 a.m.

Are you sure? If it reports every 30 mins then a last transmission at 1:07 would also tie in with both systems going offline at 1:21.

 

[Tuppy_Glossop]

Interesting

 

[dannyjo22]

This is the pilot with a 777 simulator in his own home. It's the most logical explanation.

Yes must have been a suicide bomber, I mean after all he's the only pilot with a copy of a pc game running a multiple monitor set up in his house. Also I think he was certified to pass other pilots off in the simulator. God forbid he actually had that much interest in his job.

Are people thinking he had a full motion sim in his house or something?

And in a German online forum for simulator enthusiasts, X-Sim.de, there is a post from November 2012 in his name that says he built it himself.

"About a month ago I finish assembly of FSX and FS9 with 6 monitors." The message was signed Capt. Zaharie Ahmad Shah BOEING 777 MALAYSIA AIRLINES.

FSX and FS9 are over-the-counter flight simulator games made by Microsoft.

 

[Tuppy_Glossop]

Are people thinking he had a full motion sim in his house or something?

Wow, how much are MA paying their pilots ?

 

[touch]

Interesting

It would be interesting to know more about this. It was very briefly discussed on pprune before a lot of people clearly very knowledgeable on aircraft and their related systems but showing basic misunderstandings of computer systems decided that 'it could never happen'. (Most of these posts have now been deleted along with the alien theories).

 

[covenantuk]

Now I am going by only what I read, but you can pull the fuses out behind the main communication board? The transponder units have to be easily accessable, as you have to change the codes incase of emergencies/ in different airspaces as far as I understand.

All of which illustrates the point that it's not just a case of pressing a couple of buttons to disable every system capable of tracking the aircraft.