Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

[scorza]

Read what he said before dismissing him, all of what he says is factual, as in we have historical records to prove that these things happened. The difference between me and you is that I provide unbiased facts and then balanced outlooks from both sides whereas you disregard anything that doesn't fit your view that west are angels and ruskies are evil. I already proved many times your bias, just one the last page you propose to ignore Rada vote on the subject. You really don't care about the truth nor do you seem to have basic knowledge in politics and economics

I've read it, like anything concerning Geo-politics it's mostly spin, conjecture and half-truths - basically an anti-NATO rant which is something I'd expect from a politician in a political party called "The Left".

E.g.

"the US foreign minister and the German foreign minister of the time, Genscher, and other foreign ministers told Gorbachev: No eastwards extension of the NATO will take place." Conjecture - the US foreign minister at the time denies it.

"Then, third, the decision was made to station rockets in Poland and the Czech Republic." Spin - I take this to mean the US missile defence shield, which never actually deployed any missiles to Poland.

"And finally, the NATO gravely and repeatedly violated international law in the Yugoslavian war. This is meanwhile even confirmed by former German chancellor Schröder." - Former Chancellor Schroder, who is currently paid by the Russian state-owned Gazprom so who might not exactly be an unbiased source on this matter.

 

[Devlish]

International Observers

LOL we are not from this country as we were invited by russia and crimea and we are looking around, therefore we are 'international observers'.

Meanwhile... http://www.osce.org/cio/116313

 

[Nerusy]

I've read it, like anything concerning Geo-politics it's mostly spin, conjecture and half-truths - basically an anti-NATO rant which is something I'd expect from a politician in a political party called "The Left".

E.g.

"the US foreign minister and the German foreign minister of the time, Genscher, and other foreign ministers told Gorbachev: No eastwards extension of the NATO will take place." Conjecture - the US foreign minister at the time denies it.

You don't seem to have any problem disregarding official stance of Russian foreign minister that there are no Russian troops in Crimea, once again your bias is to disregard Russian official stance yet accept US official stance as absolute truth.

"Then, third, the decision was made to station rockets in Poland and the Czech Republic." Spin - I take this to mean the US missile defense shield, which never actually deployed any missiles to Poland.

Everybody knows the defense shield is not up currently but to dismiss that US tried to put it there in essence restarting cold war tactics is once again very naive and biased of you. The west has been eating away at the sphere of influence what else do you expect from Russia but to adopt same illegal tactics?

"And finally, the NATO gravely and repeatedly violated international law in the Yugoslavian war. This is meanwhile even confirmed by former German chancellor Schröder." - Former Chancellor Schroder, who is currently paid by the Russian state-owned Gazprom so who might not exactly be an unbiased source on this matter.

It is not secret that bombing civilians is not exactly legal and Kosovo independence (which is against internal law) recognition opened the flood gates, it is exactly because of Kosovo Russia recognized South Ossetia and Abkhazia independence, as until Kosovo Russia did not recognize independence of either.

 

[RDM]

You don't seem to have any problem disregarding official stance of Russian foreign minister that there are no Russian troops in Crimea, once again your bias is to disregard Russian official stance yet accept US official stance as absolute truth.

My general assumption is that they are both probably lying unless they have nothing to gain from doing so...

Do you honestly doubt that the suddenly well equipped Russian speaking militia that sprung up fully formed in Crimea are not Russian troops?

I struggle to think that anyone could honestly think that this referendum isn't a set up.

 

[physichull]

From BBC:

"The EU has agreed to impose travel bans and asset freezes against 21 officials from Russia and Ukraine."

How scary, Putin must be quaking in his boots at the thought of that!

Toothless.

 

[scorza]

You don't seem to have any problem disregarding official stance of Russian foreign minister that there are no Russian troops in Crimea, once again your bias is to disregard Russian official stance yet accept US official stance as absolute truth.

I find it hilarious that you are still unable to come to a judgement on the status of the armed gunmen in the Crimea. FYI the definition of the word "conjecture" is "an opinion or conclusion formed on the basis of incomplete information." Therefore any statement that there was a definitive agreement not to expand NATO eastwards can only be conjecture as there is no evidence of an agreement and the bloke who was actually there says that there was never an agreement. I realise this may be a bit too subtle for you, but this is not the same as saying there definitely wasn't an agreement.

Everybody knows the defense shield is not up currently but to dismiss that US tried to put it there in essence restarting cold war tactics is once again very naive and biased of you. The west has been eating away at the sphere of influence what else do you expect from Russia but to adopt same illegal tactics?

The missile shield was a plan put into motion after September 11th 2001 to counter the threat from a then rogue state such as Iraq, Iran, North Korea. Only Russia saw this as cold war tactics - the US even offered to share technology with Russia on this.

Sorry but what was illegal about an agreement between Poland and the USA to have missiles stationed on Polish soil? How does that even compare to a land grab invasion?

It is not secret that bombing civilians is not exactly legal and Kosovo independence (which is against internal law) recognition opened the flood gates, it is exactly because of Kosovo Russia recognized South Ossetia and Abkhazia independence, as until Kosovo Russia did not recognize independence of either.

So will you give the same level of condemnation to Russia for bombing civilians during the invasion of Georgia? or supporting Syria while it is massacring its own civilians? Are these actions OK to you as long as it's not "the West" doing it?

BTW no-one from NATO has ever been convicted of a war crime in Kosovo. The same cannot be said for Russia's ally at the time Serbia.

 

[Freddie1980]

That has to be the most mickey mouse referendum in history, Russia didn't even try to make the end result look even remotely plusable. Some people were allowed to vote 5-6 times.

From BBC:

"The EU has agreed to impose travel bans and asset freezes against 21 officials from Russia and Ukraine."

How scary, Putin must be quaking in his boots at the thought of that!

Toothless.

I prefer gutless. At least it's a start though.

 

[Nerusy]

My general assumption is that they are both probably lying unless they have nothing to gain from doing so...

Do you honestly doubt that the suddenly well equipped Russian speaking militia that sprung up fully formed in Crimea are not Russian troops?

I struggle to think that anyone could honestly think that this referendum isn't a set up.

Obviously not, the point at hand is the numerous times I have called him out on his bias. I won't be so audacious as to claim for a fact that they are Russian soldiers as scorza likes to present his opinion as fact. But if I was to be asked on my opinion I would incline to to say that's part of them are obviously Russian millitary.

Also

suddenly well equipped Russian speaking militia

It's Crimea, the fact that they're Russian speaking is not hard to come by, every single interview I've seen be it from pro-ruski, pro-kiev or crimean tatars all spoke russian.

The equipment is obviously provided by the Russian military, there's no ambiguity about that.

 

[ubersonic]

1: The UK was not very pleased with the US war of independence, by comparison Crimea's referendum is far more legitimate even if denounced by their oppressors.

2: Lies and propaganda, hardly any polling stations had troops present and the ones that did had them outside to guard against pro-Ukrainian attacks, voters were not watched or pressured (as the international community would well know if it had taken up the request to send observers to oversee the referendum).

3: It was organised for months from now, however it was moved forwards twice in response to Ukrainian elections being scheduled in the meantime and then the threats of aggression by the new Ukrainian government.

4: People in Crimea have been under Ukrainian control for 23 years, the case of what that means needs no explanation to the people living it. But western media can still be received in Crimea despite our media making it out to be an information black spot with no TV/Internet/etc.

5: Entirely a matter of politics and who is scratching who's back.

 

[Nerusy]

I find it hilarious that you are still unable to come to a judgement on the status of the armed gunmen in the Crimea. FYI the definition of the word "conjecture" is "an opinion or conclusion formed on the basis of incomplete information." Therefore any statement that there was a definitive agreement not to expand NATO eastwards can only be conjecture as there is no evidence of an agreement and the bloke who was actually there says that there was never an agreement. I realise this may be a bit too subtle for you, but this is not the same as saying there definitely wasn't an agreement.

That was not my point, nice strawman, my point was your hypocrisy

The missile shield was a plan put into motion after September 11th 2001 to counter the threat from a then rogue state such as Iraq, Iran, North Korea. Only Russia saw this as cold war tactics - the US even offered to share technology with Russia on this.

Sorry but what was illegal about an agreement between Poland and the USA to have missiles stationed on Polish soil? How does that even compare to a land grab invasion?

The question here is not about legality but about resuming cold war arms race. It does not matter what the US claims the shield is against rogue states when the shield would directly affect offensive capabilities of the Russians.

So will you give the same level of condemnation to Russia for bombing civilians during the invasion of Georgia? or supporting Syria while it is massacring its own civilians? Are these actions OK to you as long as it's not "the West" doing it?

I knowledge atrocities by NATO in Serbia as well as atrocities by Russia and Georgia. Unlike you I do not follow false dichotomy.

BTW no-one from NATO has ever been convicted of a war crime in Kosovo. The same cannot be said for Russia's ally at the time Serbia.

Yeah and nobody was prosecuted for Iraq war and nobody was prosecuted for Russian atrocities in chechnya and nobody was prosecuted for Georgian attorocities in South Ossetia, are you 12 or do you not know how the world works?

 

[The Running Man]

The oroblem we have here is that people only want democracy when it goes in their favour. This is perhaps a democracies biggest failing. How can you run a country when half or more than half want closer ties with tje East than the west and where each side is willing to use violence to achieve its goals?

The ukraine with Crimea would be forever in and at the same time out of the eu. Otherwise the pro Russia guy would not have gotten into power previously. Ultimately the ukraine might have no choice but to lose some eastern territory for their iwn stability and control of the country if that's what the western inhabitants want.

 

[pcmedicni]

So will you give the same level of condemnation to Russia for bombing civilians during the invasion of Georgia? or supporting Syria while it is massacring its own civilians? Are these actions OK to you as long as it's not "the West" doing it?

BTW no-one from NATO has ever been convicted of a war crime in Kosovo. The same cannot be said for Russia's ally at the time Serbia.

You know full well it was Georgia that attacked Russian peace keepers first,it was a well documented war.As for Syria thankfully the vast majority have seen through that lie,still there is still time left if you want to go to Syria and fight with your Al Qaeda buddies,you may even get a chance to eat some human flesh or chops some heads off like your friends in the Fake Syrian Army love to do.

As for bombing civilians that crown goes to Obama the Drone assassin,last count his Drone program has killed over 200 children.

 

[olivier renault]

Good luck to Crimea getting their 'autonomy' from Russia now.

 

[deuse]

This has nothing to do with the EU\USA. Also I never heard any fuss when the Falkland's had a referendum to stay with the UK!

 

[Devlish]

As for Syria thankfully the vast majority have seen through that lie,still there is still time left if you want to go to Syria and fight with your Al Qaeda buddies,you may even get a chance to eat some human flesh or chops some heads off like your friends in the Fake Syrian Army love to do.

LOL, its always fun to see the feeble minded droolers try to join in the discussion. Back to the RT website with you, troll.

 

[Devlish]

This has nothing to do with the EU\USA. Also I never heard any fuss when the Falkland's had a referendum to stay with the UK!

You might have if 40% of them had been Argentinian.

 

[pcmedicni]

LOL, its always fun to see the feeble minded droolers try to join in the discussion. Back to the RT website with you, troll.

Lol,and the same tards use the same punchline,blame it on RT.

Now if your man enough retard,come back at with with some facts or STFU.

 

[R@tman]

so the question is how long till Russia turn off the gas ?

 

[scorza]

so the question is how long till Russia turn off the gas ?

I doubt they're going to bankrupt themselves over a bunch of asset freezes/travel bans for a handful of mid-ranking politicians and bureaucrats somehow. They're probably laughing about it right now - Russia gets Crimea, EU gets Slutsky's Mayfair flat worth a couple of EUR million.

 

[Judgeneo]

so the question is how long till Russia turn off the gas ?

Won't effect us too much either way.