So what is about about ironsights and a fast time to kill in fps that appeals?

[SC0TTRS]

I used (or tried) to play FPS back on a 56k connection....now THAT to skill to play! lol

 

[jubei]

I used (or tried) to play FPS back on a 56k connection....now THAT to skill to play! lol

Aye man, first wireplay and then barrysworld/jolt for some serious quake action. Good times that i will always remember fondly lol.

I maintain that CoD style games dont require skill, i hear the argument that its a different kind of skill to twitch fps etc but you could call anything skillful with that logic.

Any game that can reward a lucky spray headshot and give perks that gives you extra kills without the need to control them is hardly skillful. I would put CS above any of those cod/bf type games for skill and CS to me is a long way from skillful when compared to a game like quake.

 

[=XDC=FluphyBunny]

....

I maintain that CoD style games dont require skill, i hear the argument that its a different kind of skill to twitch fps etc but you could call anything skillful with that logic.

....

Clearly they do that's why some people are better than others, same with BF.

I understand Warbie's argument in that the games he likes aren't made anymore (as they aren't popular enough) but saying 'X' game requires no skill is plain daft. Have a look at some youtube vids of MYM-PUNCHRULLE or some of the vids linked from bf thread from westie/joe. If no skill was involved the same players wouldn't continually do well.

Also I would say the skill ceiling is high taking into account that something like bf has vehicles as well as just infantry. I have played 100's of hours of BF games and tend to do fine in pub servers, but there is still a big gap between myself and a competitive player (we are ignoring ea/dices efforts to kill of competitive play in bf4)

 

[Sasso]

true dat. you take a competitive inf team and put them against a pub team. pub team will get destroyed hands down!

hell.... even in competitive games..... some teams just get absolutely schooled.

we did a 8v8 vehicles BF3 ESL ladder.... we played....1.....maybe 2 matches......I mean we had good infentry players and those of us in vehicles could usually easily hold our own in public no problem.... but we got spawn locked very quickly and couldn't leave base.... was fun going from jets to being sat on the runway with sniper and engineer to javlin the pros as they attacked the jets the moment they spawned

if these games take "no skill" then in public people have negative skill xD

 

[Mockingbird]

I think the main difference is not the 'skill ceiling' it's the 'skill floor' if you will - the skill required to feel like you're actually taking part in some meaningful way.

You can be proficient (or at least feel other than useless) at CoD/BF4 more readily than, for example, quake, but to master either takes both skill and invested time.

Any game that can reward a lucky spray headshot and give perks that gives you extra kills without the need to control them is hardly skillful.

I'm not a huge fan of the CoD perks myself, but this sentence could just as easily be "any game that gives you a 1 hit kill weapon with no bullet drop or travel time (Q3 railgun) is hardly skillful". If a spray headshot 1h kill is possible then the player needs to weigh up whether to spray and pray or to take a more aimed approach - one gives you a quicker possible TTK, the other a more consistent kill. That in itself is a skill. That and the fact that any random noob, no matter how clueless, can still be a danger means you have to play around that as well.

TBH I think both require different skills but given the higher skill floor, Quake type shooters tend to have a smaller core of more dedicated players and fewer people who never make it past the spray and pray, so for any given amount of time spent playing you will encounter fewer of those players.

 

[Epoch]

That may be the case - map awareness, timing etc plays a part - but if we're talking pure aiming and movement skill, the fast time to kill and ironsight based shooters don't compare to Quake/UT/RTCW/ET/TFC et al.

I used to love ET. With there being a range of classes with different uses it really made it just as important to have good tactics and teamwork as it did to have good fragging skills, so if you're not a good shot, just help out by healing/giving out ammo/doing the engineers duty... if you're a good shot, clear the area ahead for those pushing the objective. I've found people either just don't like these types of games (Until recently CoD outselling most other FPS), or they're out for themselves (e.g. just after the vehicles or sitting 'covering' with a sniper).
I think the problem has been too many people being told their K/D defines how good a gamer they are, so the fact they can get easy kills draws them to the games where they can run around and spray for easy kills, or sit back on a hill with a sniper picking people off. I liked Brinks system of not showing K/D in matches and only points for the objective.

 

[mlbtheshow]

Most skilled FPS is MOHAA... if it had proper support ie Anti Cheat, Patches and Map DLC etc, then it would have all the potential to be or have been one of the top 'pro' games imo

Aim actually counted in that game and the 1v1s etc were frantic and proper firefights.

 

[Nemeses]

Funny thing on most servers they play hard core mode, which is in-fact easy to kill with little skill mode, I'm not saying that there are not very good players who play in these matches, all I'm saying its pretty easy to rack up the kills, with little to no skill.

 

[Bloomfield]

I don't know about you, but if I get shot it real life, I expect to die pretty quickly.

Do you also expect to be able to go hide for 5 seconds after being shot and being fully healed? .

 

[Rroff]

Aye man, first wireplay and then barrysworld/jolt for some serious quake action. Good times that i will always remember fondly lol.

I maintain that CoD style games dont require skill, i hear the argument that its a different kind of skill to twitch fps etc but you could call anything skillful with that logic.

Any game that can reward a lucky spray headshot and give perks that gives you extra kills without the need to control them is hardly skillful. I would put CS above any of those cod/bf type games for skill and CS to me is a long way from skillful when compared to a game like quake.

Thats the thing - a skilled player of those type of game modes won't just be standing around waiting to be shot in the head and a lot of the skill of i.e. quake in regards to movement and aim gets compressed into a shorter amount of time sure sometimes a headshot can determine the outcome of a fight otherwise than the skill levels involved but minimising the chances of that happening are part of whats required to be a highly skilled player in that game style.

Sure "hardcore" modes probably enable low skilled played a bit better to get kills against average players but thats about it - a high level player will still destroy them with little trouble and the skill required to play at a high level in that kind of game mode is no less than it is in more arena style gameplay - I will go as far as to say anyone saying otherwise has never spent much time playing anything other than arena style games.

(While actively playing I was in the top15 ranked on quakelive so I think I have a fair idea when it comes to the skill levels required heh)

 

[Warbie]

But you must admit it's a different type of skill. If we're talking pure gaming mechanics, it's harder to hit a fast moving target multiple times than it is a slow target a few times.

 

[Rroff]

Definitely different - arena type games require good reactions, good target acquisition and the ability to track a fast moving hitbox, softcore ADS/fast TTK is less reliant on reaction times and more about being able to precisely aim within certain parts of a medium speed moving target and harcore ADS/fast TTK is often about insanely fast clean target acquisition which is more skill demanding than it might sound. But a good hardcore player isn't a slow or static target they will be moving and shooting with the gameflow minimising the time they are exposed either due to cover or from aiming - granted at the lower skill level of a hardcore game there can be less skill required to get kills than the other 2 types but its unfair to paint the whole mode like that.


EDIT: I regularly play all 3 different styles and don't think any are less skill demanding than any other if you want to play at a higher level but I also wouldn't want to see all FPS games move towards ADS/fast TTK either. Arena shooters and I'd broadly put Titanfall into that catagory due to the overall gameplay mechanics aren't really the place for it.

 

[~>Dg<~]

true dat. you take a competitive inf team and put them against a pub team. pub team will get destroyed hands down!

hell.... even in competitive games..... some teams just get absolutely schooled.

we did a 8v8 vehicles BF3 ESL ladder.... we played....1.....maybe 2 matches......I mean we had good infentry players and those of us in vehicles could usually easily hold our own in public no problem.... but we got spawn locked very quickly and couldn't leave base.... was fun going from jets to being sat on the runway with sniper and engineer to javlin the pros as they attacked the jets the moment they spawned

if these games take "no skill" then in public people have negative skill xD

the difference is people and how they rate each other. for eg on here in bf3/bf4 thread out of all people there is probably one high bf player most are just med to med plus.

some will say hes high or this and that = nope!

a lot of people pub stomp which low to meds can do quite easy think they amazing. then go play a reasonable just med comp team get ruined.

skill is definitely a factor but so is nerve . some people crack like eggs playing properly

a real good organized med team can beat a high team if well practiced and up for scalping but generally you wont have a chance.

 

[Rroff]

skill is definitely a factor but so is nerve . some people crack like eggs playing properly

Still remember my first proper competitive Q3 CTF match - shaking like a leaf lol, these days if the adrenaline kicks in at all its afterwards.

Holding your nerve when **** hits the fan proper in a tense match is a whole different level. If it was 10-15 years ago I could atleast go semi-pro in BF4 but don't have the reaction times I had in my late teens/early 20s any more :|

EDIT: That said I think any competitive scene in BF4 is something of a sick joke given the broken nature of the game and implementation.

 

[FrenchTart]

I think all of us that used to play twitchy games such as Q3 well have sadly aged to the point where we're just a bit slow these days That said, there are plenty of people that are awful about so you can still feel kind of pro.

I remember the nerves from serious games too. And the way I couldn't stop my knee bouncing up and down whilst my heart went crazy. Good times.

 

[~>Dg<~]

we once had a match cod4 for top of ladder against team not lost in around 50 matches. we were well up for it then at last minute a couple of the regulars couldn't play so we had two new players come in

basically over 2 rounds in came down to 5 kills and it was by those very players who panicked for 5 secs that lost us the match !

we replayed them a week after with regular solid team we won by nearly 90 kills !

you see it a lot. some people can play like monsters in pub then fold when its a comp game. where it often in close games can be down to one or two kills for win or that bit of nerve to carry you home.

 

[Horse Pop]

Personally I've always liked games with gameplay that tends towards lots of sneaky ambush type gameplay and very precise lethal gunplay.

That doesn't necessarily mean it has to have short TTKs but a lot of those games do have that.

In fairness, a lot of the time the gameplay I am enjoying there is more about the "spy vs spy" (remember that?) aspect of being a sneaky git.

It's interesting that you're griping about RCoF as I never overly liked that stuff coming at it from the other side either. I always liked the pointing and clicking to be very technical.

 

[badcompany]

Quake is true test of skill. Still unmatched.

 

[maxilive]

The competitive games that you crave still come out but they just aren't popular any more. Players prefer the pick up and play mentality that COD, TitanFall and BF4 offer. Don't forget a lot more peeps play online and it isn't just the core guys on 56k modems trying to get their online slaughtering fix

As for the difference in the games it mainly comes down to mobility and map design, COD isn't designed around choke points or positional advantages whereas competitive games area with them often offer multiple objects, such as mega health in quake etc. I've been playing Titanfall a bit recently and I've been doing pretty well at it but I wouldn't say its my accuracy doing that (as all I ever need to do is spray with a smg) it is more awareness and picking my moments when to go hunting for peeps. I've also been playing a bit of CS:GO and not doing to badly in that but that is mainly down to accuracy as you really need to control the guns.

If you are looking for competitive games they are still out there and still played by core groups. Where as the popular games these days aren't aimed around competitive play but they can provide it if you really dig deep into the mechanics.

 

[Deyvy]

Anyone play Delta Force?