Aborted Babies incinerated to heat Hospital!!

[boxman2000]

I witness 23 weeker births regularly, I'm unsure trying to help them survive is the right thing.

Some survive, the vast majority many don't, many survive for months of intensive care then die.

I'm of the opinion that most should be wrapped up and given to their parents and allowed to die.

The argument about prematurity is nonsense.

But the point is that they don't all die. It must be really tough seeing that regularly, I don't think I could handle seeing that, personally.

I would say that although medical science has gone on leaps and bounds, I do think it has brought it's own set of moral problems with it.

 

[Lysander]

I'd wonder how many people would be pro-choice after having witnessed a 23 week abortion. Until you have, you haven't got a clue... seriously. I say that from someone who has.

I'm not disputing that at all. However, my argument is twofold that a] a foetus is not a child and b] it is not alive. Emotions come massively into play at this point and it's hard to be objective. If you look at a foetus your brain sees something that can become a child but neither is it one nor is it independent.

 

[Minstadave]

But the point is that they don't all die. It must be really tough seeing that regularly, I don't think I could handle seeing that, personally.

I would say that although medical science has gone on leaps and bounds, I do think it has brought it's own set of moral problems with it.

They don't all die, left doesn't work life that. But a line must be drawn somewhere.

Its getting to the point where we can make more and more babies survive, but just because we can doesn't mean we should. Is it fair to churn out 10 babies that are severely neurodisabled in the hope that 1 will manage an independent life?

 

[RDM]

I'd wonder how many people would be pro-choice after having witnessed an abortion. Until you have, you haven't got a clue... seriously. I say that from someone who has.

I witnessed my wife undergo a D&C due to a miscarriage and also witnessed the birth of my daughter. Neither of those things have changed my mind that the rights of the woman to control her own body outweigh the rights of the unborn child.

 

[sbi5ar]

Until you have, you haven't got a clue... seriously. I say that from someone who has.

So that makes you the world leading authority on the matter... :roll eyes:

Also... A lump of dough is not a current bun... it is a lump of dough... Just like a piece of bread is not a sandwich and cake mixture is not a cake. The end product is what it is... until then it is constituent parts. None of which matters... What Im trying to get at... The cut off point has been determined but people with access to more information than you or I... before this, it is not considered life and thus just constituent parts (dividing cells).

 

[boxman2000]

I'm not disputing that at all. However, my argument is twofold that a] a foetus is not a child and b] it is not alive. Emotions come massively into play at this point. If you look at a foetus your brain sees something that can become a child but neither is it one nor is it independent.

Have to agree to disagree. No child, whether born or unborn is independent, it relies completely on it's mother (or assistance) to live up to a certain age.

To say it isn't alive is ridiculous - just because it isn't capable of certain things doesn't change the fact that it is developing, growing, even learning.

I fail to see why at 24 weeks that 'foetus' is suddenly a child when we can clearly see from Minstadave's post above that he regularly sees children born at 23 weeks.

 

[mlbtheshow]

Abort = Get Rid

At least the kid is putting something back into the world by heating up a building, rather than being flushed down the bog.

Same with everyone, once you are dead, you are nothing more than a piece of meat. If it is of benefit, burn all the dead bodies imo to heat a city. You can still stick a slab of concrete somewhere for people to toss flowers on.

 

[boxman2000]

So that makes you the world leading authority on the matter... :roll eyes:.

No, I'm telling you that it's too easy to shout about rights and choice but until someone has witnessed the realities, I suspect many would change their view. Even then, I would accept their informed choice, even if it is pro-choice.

Sorry but the cold hard reality of it will be something I won't ever forget. I'm not saying it makes me any kind of authority on the subject, I'm just someone that actually has a view, witnessed the process and airing my opinion.

Going back on topic - I'm actually surprised that not all aborted babies are incinerated as I doubt any parents would want to bury what's left of their child, or even think of it again (not that is it possible from those I know that have done). My heart does go out to those that don't see they have any other choice, they do but sadly society would rather see the baby aborted than going 'into the system'.

 

[WillyNelson]

I'd wonder how many people would be pro-choice after having witnessed an abortion. Until you have, you haven't got a clue... seriously. I say that from someone who has.

I have, twice. I'm still pro-choice, for the reason RDM gave (the rights of the woman to control her own body outweigh the rights of the unborn child) as well as other reasons both medical & non-medical.

Boxman, are you anti because you believe it is the termination of life or because of the procedure?

 

[dan958]

All the people that are against this. What are they supposed to do with it? Bury them?

 

[Hyburnate]

Don't really see the problem, all cremation is is incineration.

 

[Cosimo]

They eat them in China don't they? Well, they eat balut in Vietnam same difference.

Eating them is arguably a better use.

Healthy omelette option in hospital canteens....

 

[Greboth]

If all the ingredients are there then yes, just has to be baked. Were you as tall now as you were when you were when you were 5 years old? Of course you weren't, you had to grow.

One of my best friends was born at 24 weeks, he survived after months in hospital but he's going to be 30 next week and has a successful career and a loving wife. The doctors would have had no question but to offer an abortion... was he a foetus?

My wife's mother was offered an abortion form when she was expecting her, fortunately she decided to go the adoption route.

My wife worked in a GP surgery for years, almost all abortions were simply put down to the fact the mother didn’t want the child. Of course it was sold originally to everyone that it was to prevent the risk to the mother; although there are some cases like this, I would be surprised if 5% met that criteria. My view is it’s murder by convenience.

I'd wonder how many people would be pro-choice after having witnessed an abortion. Until you have, you haven't got a clue... seriously. I say that from someone who has.

Have to agree to disagree. No child, whether born or unborn is independent, it relies completely on it's mother (or assistance) to live up to a certain age.

To say it isn't alive is ridiculous - just because it isn't capable of certain things doesn't change the fact that it is developing, growing, even learning.

I fail to see why at 24 weeks that 'foetus' is suddenly a child when we can clearly see from Minstadave's post above that he regularly sees children born at 23 weeks.

I am trying to work out are you against abortion entirely or just that you think 24 weeks is too far into a pregnancy for an abortion.

I believe that a woman, any woman, should have the choice. Technically a morning after pill is abortion however a fertalised egg does not make a baby and at this point I don't see how anyone can sensible argue against abortion. There is no set time in a pregnancy though where it can be definitively said at this exact point it stops being a collection of cells and becomes a baby. I agree that by 20+ weeks it does enter a very grey area of cells or baby but the 24 weeks decision has been made by people a lot more knowledgable than I, therefore I accept it.

 

[Minstadave]

I fail to see why at 24 weeks that 'foetus' is suddenly a child when we can clearly see from Minstadave's post above that he regularly sees children born at 23 weeks.

Yes and the majority of them die, and to my mind this is the kindest thing for them, even having seen the ones that survive. So please don't take my post out of context.

I have absolutely nothing against termination upto 24 weeks, and up until term if significant anomalies are present. It strikes me as a very sensible policy.

 

[RDM]

The vast majority of abortions in the UK are first trimester so don't even come close to the limits of survivability.

 

[Vulcan]

One of my best friends was born at 24 weeks, he survived after months in hospital but he's going to be 30 next week and has a successful career and a loving wife. The doctors would have had no question but to offer an abortion... was he a foetus?

Probably not since he was out of the womb, but as you said, he required medical treatment and wouldn't have survived without it. But I don't really see your point? We already know that a foetus might survive at 24 weeks or below with medical treatment.

I'd wonder how many people would be pro-choice after having witnessed an abortion. Until you have, you haven't got a clue... seriously. I say that from someone who has.

How many people would want to go to a hospital and have an operation after witnessing said operation? People getting sliced open etc. Not many. It's horrible, it's disgusting, but sometimes it's for the best.

 

[XeNoN89]

Pro lifers are some of the most selfish people around.

Happy to let mothers and babies suffer rather than ending everything early, and all because of their own stupid (and often religious) beliefs.

 

[RDM]

I also find it somewhat bizarre that pro life also seems to go hand in hand with anti contraception. You want to reduce abortions? Encourage education about and use of contraception!

 

[Minstadave]

Every sperm is sacred

 

[robgmun]

Pro lifers are some of the most selfish people around.

Happy to let mothers and babies suffer rather than ending everything early, and all because of their own stupid (and often religious) beliefs.

I have debated this with myself over many years and i have come down to the fact that i'm pro-life, selfish? Hardly. It doesn't effect me personally but it might in the future.

In essence i have decided that all life is sacred. If the mother doesn't want the baby then she has to give it up to adoption. Anything else is just murder.

I'm not anti contraception or the morning after pill at all, i hate the stance of the Catholic Church in Africa. It has caused untold suffering and death.