It's here - Sharia law to be enshrined in UK legal system

[zoomee]

The majority of posters in this thread have been pretty much saying it is a non issue (with the odd post from zoomee trying to blame the Jews again).

Pathetic. I'll quote this in response to your allegation of anti-Semitism seeing as you seem to lack a basic common sense in certain areas too:

I think Zomee was simply pointing out your selective nature of your hate campaign, in fact I think I've brought it up with you in the past "blinkers" is the term I used for you.

Most people here have the common sense to know the same old trolls operate in the same anti-muslim threads with their 'blinkered' views. There's a reason why the likes of Bitslice and co have had posts removed, threads closed and been reprimanded by the mods here.

 

[BuffetSlayer]

Sorry, but an "undermining of democratically determined human rights-compliant law" is significant in my book, and obviously in the editor of the Daily Telegraph's book as well.

"Everyone has freedom to make their own will and everyone has freedom to let those wills reflect their religious beliefs"

The mechanics are already legal. A person can legally include or exlude anyone they want from their will, for any reasons they want, under existing law.

If I dont want members of my family to get a penny, they wont. If I want to leave my estate to a charity, I can. If I want to make sure only the athesit members of my family get any of my estate, I can. If I want the women of my family to receive half of what the men get, I can.

It is already allowed and it is already legal.

Sharia arbitration does not change that fact.

Surely your complaint should be against the existing legal system, not Sharia arbitration?

 

[Hilly]

For Craterloads, Bitslice etc - the Mods read as much as they possibly can and rely on UB's and RTM's to flag up issues with posters on certain topics.

Whilst this topic is sensitive and could potentially cause offence (and I've read the vast majority of it) providing that the discussion stays sensible, it can be heated. Anyone who steps over the line will have my ban hammer - as of yet, I don't believe this is necessary.

RTM the posts you feel are out of line and I'll look at them more closely.

 

[bitslice]

There's a reason why the likes of Bitslice and co have had posts removed, threads closed and been reprimanded by the mods here.

Mods feel free to correct me, but that thread was removed at the OP's request because of Muslim apologist trolling, and I've never been infracted for pointing out the flaws in Islam or what Islamists get up to, or iirc ever been infracted in one of your Muslim threads? (although I'm sure I must have, memory isn't 100%)

I've been infracted for calling someone a (furry litter picking children's charactor) and a few years back for using soldier vernacular for something, can't recall what the rest were, probably poor choice of language and one for not hosting an image by mistake, can't remember what I got banned a month for?

No need to ask if you have ever been infracted for the stuff you say on these threads. Zero.

But this is just another of your repeated attempts to slander me isn't it?
Can't think why you don't just stick to the posts and not the person. Can't Mohammad stand up to scrutiny without his followers killing people? Jesus must be way more awesome, no deaths required for him.

There you go hilly, you have access to my infraction record, I reckon his post is a flat out lie, is that allowed?

 

[spoffle]

Mods feel free to correct me, but that thread was removed at the OP's request because of Muslim apologist trolling, and I've never been infracted for pointing out the flaws in Islam or what Islamists get up to, or iirc ever been infracted in one of your Muslim threads? (although I'm sure I must have, memory isn't 100%)

I've been infracted for calling someone a (furry litter picking children's charactor) and a few years back for using soldier vernacular for something, can't recall what the rest were, probably poor choice of language and one for not hosting an image by mistake, can't remember what I got banned a month for?

No need to ask if you have ever been infracted for the stuff you say on these threads. Zero.

But this is just another of your repeated attempts to slander me isn't it?
Can't think why you don't just stick to the posts and not the person. Can't Mohammad stand up to scrutiny without his followers killing people? Jesus must be way more awesome, no deaths required for him.

There you go hilly, you have access to my infraction record, I reckon his post is a flat out lie, is that allowed?

You are like a parody of an anti-religious nut. You do yourself no favours with the way you attempt to argue, and you very clearly try and bait people in to arguments/insulting you with the way you carefully phrase your posts.

You are comical.

 

[bitslice]

You are like a parody of an anti-religious nut. You do yourself no favours with the way you attempt to argue, and you very clearly try and bait people in to arguments/insulting you with the way you carefully phrase your posts.

Haven't you said exactly this before?
And why should I be doing myself favours? That implies taking all this really seriously, you can gnash your teeth over this if you like but to me it's just another topic for debate. I don't even have to think, it all gets handed to me.

If you had been paying attention then you would have noticed that my target isn't fluffy muslims, it's the white liberal fascist PC people who push for their idea of what society should look like. This is merely counter propaganda

Btw, I quite like religion.

 

[Zethor]

Bitslice, are you unable to notice the irony of your stance? The manner in which you talk about the "flaws in Islam" is identical to the rhetoric of Islamic Fundamentalists who talk about the "flaws of the West". Generalizations, cherry picked events/statements, world wide conspiracies etc. , it's all the same - you literally are what you hate/fear.

There is however one important difference. You live in a free society, with access to education, information and plenty of chances to do what wish in your life while most Fundamentalists have lived their lives in war zones or sh*tholes.

They have somewhat of an excuse for their ignorance. You do not.

 

[scorza]

Bitslice, are you unable to notice the irony of your stance? The manner in which you talk about the "flaws in Islam" is identical to the rhetoric of Islamic Fundamentalists who talk about the "flaws of the West". Generalizations, cherry picked events/statements, world wide conspiracies etc. , it's all the same - you literally are what you hate/fear.

There is however one important difference. You live in a free society, with access to education, information and plenty of chances to do what wish in your life while most Fundamentalists have lived their lives in war zones or sh*tholes.

They have somewhat of an excuse for their ignorance. You do not.

You know what would turn our free society into a **** hole? Sharia law.

 

[spoffle]

You know what would turn our free society into a **** hole? Sharia law.

I don't think anyone's debating this point.

 

[Baron C]

I misread Sharia as Shakira. I thought something had happened to her .

The Telegraph...sigh ...

The kind of social change required to bring about Sharia law to the the levels enacted in third world countries would require an all out revolution. I don't know about you lot, I just cannot see what kind of disruption/upheaval would need to take place for that to occur here in the UK. Unless the queen does a 'Cat Stevens' and converts to Islam.

Furthermore, where in the higher political spheres are the Islamic firebrands, I see nobody in any of the major parties espousing any ambitions but for the rule of law.
There are checks and balances throughout that ensures we get stuck with bland and dull politicians spouting the same drivel and selling there souls to Corporate interests.

That article says practically nothing, about anything that isn't already commonplace in UK law.
Sure you can argue that certain customs are archaic, backwards and horrendous. Then again,
I say the same things about our UK institutions.


Please, get a grip, get on with your lives, try to be happy and find some contentment. Your time on this planet is short, make much better use with it. <3

 

[Zethor]

You know what would turn our free society into a **** hole? Sharia law.

The question is, how will Sharia become law in the Uk or any developed country? Religious laws have two functions: 1) Give false hope to the poor and 2) Conserve the power of the rich. What is the scenario in which the poor of Britain start to see hope in Sharia while the rich gain power from it?

It would be more reasonable to fear leaving underground areas due to potential meteor impacts than to fear the potential of Sharia becoming law in the Uk.

 

[bitslice]

Bitslice, are you unable to notice the irony of your stance? The manner in which you talk about the "flaws in Islam" is identical to the rhetoric of Islamic Fundamentalists who talk about the "flaws of the West". Generalizations, cherry picked events/statements, world wide conspiracies etc. , it's all the same - you literally are what you hate/fear.

What conspiracy? Who am I supposed to hate again, those beardy people I've never seen or have any contact with whatsoever. I've never seen the Bed Monster either, so if I don't sleep tonight I'm blaming you

On some issues I agree with them, the west is fundamentally depraved on every level, we probably shouldn't try to install democracy in a tribal toilet because it is 500 years too soon.
What is more relevant is giving people a place to live in the UK and them continuing to want to kill us, that's just plain rude when there are so many Muslims out there blaspheming over milk.

As all the points I've made in here I've backed up, I can't see the problem. Go and pick holes in them if you like, that's the general idea with debate.

There is however one important difference. You live in a free society, with access to education, information and plenty of chances to do what wish in your life while most Fundamentalists have lived their lives in war zones or sh*tholes.

The UK produces its own home grown terrorists now, what excuse are you giving them? No Halal McDonald's? No Jihad TV?
They are just the inevitable products of a misguided religion, no different to a Christian suicide cult.

They have somewhat of an excuse for their ignorance. You do not.

Presumably if I had stated something out of ignorance in this thread you would have already quoted me on it, so I'm assuming this is just a vague "U R Igonut" jibe. Gee thanks.






Craterloads post below is just more childish abuse, nothing there to respond to,
and not worth making a new post




/

 

[Craterloads]

As all the points I've made in here I've backed up, I can't see the problem. Go and pick holes in them if you like, that's the general idea with debate.

Are you living in an alternate reality, it's ironic you were calling your fellow stormfront members fantasists You have not made a single coherent point within your ramblings and nor have you backed them up with any level of evidence what's so ever. Passed off your own opinions as facts, heck half the stuff I don't actually believe you believe but are just looking for reactions. Have ignored attempts to expand on your "points", for example earlier on you cited "experts" yet asked like who? have failed to deliver. Debate usually starts with a foundation of integrity, you have none of this and have pretty much gone on to say this yourself and your posts also prove this. For example comparing Scarlet Johansson (who is beautiful mind you) to a bunch of extremists (best/worst), which for you is a valid comparison. How do you expect anyone in their right minds to "debate" this level of drivel, there is nothing to debate, you are not looking for debate. It's pretty clear, as pointed out by others, you are just looking to wind people up, which is a pretty sad way to spend your days.

Presumably if I had stated something out of ignorance in this thread you would have already quoted me on it, so I'm assuming this is just a vague "U R Igonut" jibe. Gee thanks.

Are we still playing that victim card?? It's getting very tired very fast.

As above you have been called out on pretty much everything, you ignore any reasonable response/request and continue pretend like your a victim. Not sure who you think you are fooling...

When you start making points like an adult, and express your views like an adult perhaps you will get more mature responses and less character assassinations (which to be fair are valid given how and what you present)

You talk about shooting the messenger not the points, in the real world if the messenger is clinically retarded anyone one take what he has to say with a pinch of salt.

 

[The Running Man]

My take on the whole islamification thing is that the uk folk in general do not want it. We have huge immigration issues and now minorities with fast growing muslim population who's growth rate exceeds 'our' own.

Thus we see a continual erosion of the laws and rules put in place to cater for or pander to this population. By giving in to more and more demands we will of course see an increase in islamification. The country will become more attractive to more muslims outside of the country and more immigration from Islamic countries.

Of course we can turn this country into the new Bangladesh, but the non Islamic population neither wants this nor will remain silent about it. Thus every legal change that enhances their ability to operate their Islamic culture overriding uk law and in cases common sense will be plastered all over the media.

Remember we are a wealthy country with relatively secure birders. We xan literally pick and choose who we want to come here from non EU countries, yet our government hasn't been selective enough and thus we end up in the situation we now find ourselves in.

 

[scorza]

The question is, how will Sharia become law in the Uk or any developed country? Religious laws have two functions: 1) Give false hope to the poor and 2) Conserve the power of the rich. What is the scenario in which the poor of Britain start to see hope in Sharia while the rich gain power from it?

It would be more reasonable to fear leaving underground areas due to potential meteor impacts than to fear the potential of Sharia becoming law in the Uk.

I imagine by the same mechanism that any large-scale change is effected - by lots of small changes over a long period of time. I know it's only a minority of British Muslims who want Sharia law, but it is a significant minority and I believe they are making a concerted effort to change Britain towards an Islamic state. They will see this move as a massive victory for them and the terrorist tactics they employ.

 

[BuffetSlayer]

Thus every legal change that enhances their ability to operate their Islamic culture overriding uk law and in cases common sense will be plastered all over the media.

It is not overriding UK law though is it? It is a means of resolving disputes within the confines of the Islamic faith by arbitration. It does not mean honour killings are going to be legal. It does not mean beheading is going to be legal. It does not mean cutting the hands off thieves is going to be legal.

All it means is that the growing Muslim community in this country have a first port of call within their faith but as I have repeatedly said (which people here seem to be repeatedly ignoring), the law does not change. Sharia arbitration is simply a channel of communication and negotiation between Muslims. It is no different from any other form of arbitration (IE Beth Din). Courts will only uphold any decisions if they are legal under the laws that already exist!

Civil courts in this country are not obliged to recognise the faith or culture of those concerned. Whatever decisions are made in Sharia arbitration are not legally binding unless they comply with existing civil law.

'Faith courts' do not and cannot overrule existing civil law and they have no sway whatsoever when it comes to criminal law. What this amounts to is a mole hill that has been inflated into a mountain. Those people in uproar are equality campaigners. It is funny they choose to pick on Sharia law when actually everything they are railing against can already happen perfectly legally in UK civil law.

If I write a will I can make sure the females in my family only get half of what the the males get. I could go and arrange a will to that effect tomorrow if I so wished.

So, what really is the problem here? It seems to me the media have whipped up another frenzy over this perceived 'Islamification' of our country which is a huge exaggeration, and a a shameful distortion of the truth.

 

[BuffetSlayer]

I imagine by the same mechanism that any large-scale change is effected - by lots of small changes over a long period of time. I know it's only a minority of British Muslims who want Sharia law, but it is a significant minority and I believe they are making a concerted effort to change Britain towards an Islamic state. They will see this move as a massive victory for them and the terrorist tactics they employ.

Or maybe they are just trying to open up lines of communication between their faith and the legal system, just like the Jews have?

Just saying.

 

[TJM]

Sorry, but an "undermining of democratically determined human rights-compliant law" is significant in my book, and obviously in the editor of the Daily Telegraph's book as well.

The Telegraph has been ruined in its race to compete with the Mail for the slobbering moron audience. It was probably the best paper for straight news 10-15 years ago; now we get fresh deposits of bile masquerading as reporting almost every day, such as this complete non-story dressed up as the death of the British legal system.

 

[Zethor]

I imagine by the same mechanism that any large-scale change is effected - by lots of small changes over a long period of time. I know it's only a minority of British Muslims who want Sharia law, but it is a significant minority and I believe they are making a concerted effort to change Britain towards an Islamic state. They will see this move as a massive victory for them and the terrorist tactics they employ.

The kind of changes you are talking about take hundreds of years and require very specific circumstances. Furthermore, the spread of Islam tends to be contained in specific ethnic groups unlike, in example, Evangelicalism (it's currently growing fast in countries such as Brazil, at the expense of Catholicism). Which brings me to the fact that organised religions spread in developing/underdeveloped countries where as they lose ground in developed ones to atheism/spirituality.

The idea of an Islamic state known as Britain is so unlikely, one can't help but think that it isn't rooted in a real perception of danger, rather a mix of ignorance and preconceived ideas.

 

[bitslice]

The idea of an Islamic state known as Britain is so unlikely.

I don't think that's the issue,
We already know that allowing Christianity to influence the laws of a country led to negative attitudes about women and homosexuals, ones that took until the 21st century to address (partially)

Acknowledging the right of yet another even more extreme religion to do much the same thing is a step backwards.
What the law society should be doing is pushing for the nullification of any gender or belief based clauses. This does NOTHING for equality.

The fact that the opposite is happening and is clearly retrograde points to a unethical pandering towards religion, born out of liberal fear of upsetting the perpetually outraged.

People take priority over backwards dogma, the musings of an illiterate peasant born 1500 years ago has no place in a modern society.