Poll: Nick Clegg vs Nigel Farage - EU Debate

[Mr. Pickle]

Not necessarily. Look at the US, I could work there, but the costs of all the Visa and immigration forms does make that very expensive for the employer. Usually in the tens of thousands of dollars.



No, but you can't complain about the issues without seeing the benefits too.

Which is why Farage hasn't got a problem with having an open door with Germany/France/Holland? You know, countries with equal standards of living in general.

That little fact at the end there is also the reason why there is no influx of mass migration from Germany to the UK. See if you can use some logic to work out the explicit reason why. But, Im sure calculated ignorance is quite tempting.

 

[aslco]

How so?

The EU would encourage trade and business both formally, but more importantly via backhand deals. It would keep us in the very dodgy inner circle or EU goings on and would help us get the ***** businessmen that would raise Private sector jobs and employment. It'd help growth with foreign workers coming in etc.

From a logical perspective right now, if this country remains a free market (which ofcourse it will) one then the EU makes sense.

Out of prinicipal i think the EU needs massive reforms and I'm not a fan of its current form. I appreciate why it exists and its actually very important in a post-war Europe for the small central and eastern nations.

It could be a great thing, but its currently controlled by a select few. The point should be to encourage cooperation, rather than for the Large nations to lead the way with what they want to achieve.

Most anti-EU people are anti-immigrant "taking our jerbs" etc whereas I am less keen on the political chess aspect of it. I'm divided, i think it should stay, but be reformed. It's fundamentally incorrect that nations that have fought so gallantly for sovereignty are having economic policy shoved down their throat.

 

[Burnsy2023]

Which is why Farage hasn't got a problem with having an open door with Germany/France/Holland? You know, countries with equal standards of living in general.

That could be difficult especially when all those countries are in the EU.

 

[kindai]

We should opperate a system similar to the aussies. If you dont have anything useful to bring, then sod off

 

[Burnsy2023]

Most anti-EU people are anti-immigrant "taking our jerbs" etc whereas I am less keen on the political chess aspect of it. I'm divided, i think it should stay, but be reformed.

I don't disagree, the EU is very bureaucratic, but that change isn't going to happen when we're faffing about membership.

 

[MANFACE]

Great win for UKIP.

All you bleeding heart lefties and socialists can go home.

 

[Hades]

Farage came across as a man of real world experience but I felt that Clegg came across as a typical career politician.

 

[Tunney]

Which is why Farage hasn't got a problem with having an open door with Germany/France/Holland? You know, countries with equal standards of living in general.

That little fact at the end there is also the reason why there is no influx of mass migration from Germany to the UK. See if you can use some logic to work out the explicit reason why. But, Im sure calculated ignorance is quite tempting.

London is France's sixth biggest city. There's a sizeable German population over here too.

Britain is also the third largest exporter of workers in Europe and that's before you consider all of the Brits who retire abroad. We benefit massively from freedom of movement.

 

[The Running Man]

London is France's sixth biggest city. There's a sizeable German population over here too.

Britain is also the third largest exporter of workers in Europe and that's before you consider all of the Brits who retire abroad. We benefit massively from freedom of movement.

British workers on export are usually specialists. Sought out because of their skill not because they are a cheap source of labour.

Similarly retirees who do so abroad are usually self sufficient and would be welcomed by most countries as a source of funds, opportunity for growth. Yes these people do benefit from the freedom of movement and so do the host countries, so for a large part even without the unrestricted movement it's entirely possible that these people would qualify for the relevant visa's although it would be more legwork to get all of the paperwork done, thus putting the cost of our labour up further.

I'm not sure the UK can flourish outside of the EU but we certainly can't adhere to all of the rules they set put either. The unknowns are so large it's difficult to truly understand the net benefit the move could bring.

 

[Tunney]

British workers on export are usually specialists. Sought out because of their skill not because they are a cheap source of labour.

And we similarly import workers from all over Europe for their specialist skills. High-end engineering in Britain would be dead without foreign workers.

 

[jsmoke]

People like Farage either don't understand or just don't accept the 'New World Order' he wants to turn back the clock to the 50s/60s and that is not going to happen. Politicians have been talking about the NWO since George Bush Sr. A united Europe and ultimately a one world Government, one monetary system, one(or none) religious system, one judicial system. A united Europe is just the beginning.

 

[AndyCroft1982]

And we similarly import workers from all over Europe for their specialist skills. High-end engineering in Britain would be dead without foreign workers.

Absolute rubbish, britain is famous for its home grown engineers we dont need to bring them in. The only people that come to Britain in vast numbers are the dregs of east europe that have caused wages to go down in this country.. Only have to look at the haulage buisness to see they have decimated it with their cheap useless HGV drivers that are under cutting highly skilled British HGV drivers

 

[Beren]

British workers on export are usually specialists. Sought out because of their skill not because they are a cheap source of labour.

Source? Many British workers who leave are doing so for opportunities abroad. I see many here in NZ (including myself) who arrived with little in the way of qualifications and have made the most of it. I would be very interested in finding out the financial and age demographic of those choosing to leave the UK.

Originally Posted by Mr. Pickle
Which is why Farage hasn't got a problem with having an open door with Germany/France/Holland? You know, countries with equal standards of living in general.

I don't agree, I think that is just a very thinly veiled way of saying 'it's ok they are like us - not like those others'

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/838de446-7d2f-11e3-a579-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2x7OY0WPv

Have a read - the Government wanted to argue that there should be tighter controls on immigration into the UK from the EU. It would have been awesome for party unity to be able to keep some of their Euro skeptics onside. They tried and tried and tried and then gave up. There are no good adult and statistically provable reasons to support stricter immigration controls. Just Daily mail fueled fears created by a Nazi supporting paper.
Why when an entire department of specialist researchers having tried for 2 months to form a reasonable argument fail to do so would I take anything Farrage says as anything more than fear mongering?

 

[Tunney]

Absolute rubbish, britain is famous for its home grown engineers we dont need to bring them in. The only people that come to Britain in vast numbers are the dregs of east europe that have caused wages to go down in this country..

As someone who has spent their entire career working in engineering, I can tell you that your perceptions of the industry are wrong. My first ever job was working in the R&D department of a large Japanese firm in Surrey. The three most senior engineers were all Polish. Another was Romanian. The other engineering firms that I've worked for have also employed a large number of foreign workers. There's a shortage of engineers in this country and these vacant positions are being filled by workers from countries that still value engineering as a career.

 

[Eurofighter]

The EU is obviously a great thing.

 

[Efour]

Next time i'm at my sisters in Lewisham ill remember all these engineers and scholars i'm rubbing shoulders with outside Poundland.

As long as their are net gains and profits across the board, you take the rough with the smooth and try not to alienate your own voters until the new ones are marking your name on the balance sheets.

Free movement of labour is and forever will be the dream of a capitalist economy and needs a constant flow of cheap immigrant workers. Obviously i have no statistics but id guess for every skilled migrant there are 5 others + their families too. That doesn't balance the few like me that leave the UK to go to other similar countries.

Its an unsustainable future driven by short term profit and lack of real investment in its citizens. Companies and people use the UK as a get rich scheme.

Id be the first to leave and move to the UK if i were from an Eastern European dump. Work here 5 years, live in squalor, move home a local Millionaire.

DM much ?

 

[areksnumbr1sxylady]

Next time i'm at my sisters in Lewisham ill remember all these engineers and scholars i'm rubbing shoulders with outside Poundland.

As long as their are net gains and profits across the board, you take the rough with the smooth and try not to alienate your own voters until the new ones are marking your name on the balance sheets.

Free movement of labour is and forever will be the dream of a capitalist economy and needs a constant flow of cheap immigrant workers. Obviously i have no statistics but id guess for every skilled migrant there are 5 others + their families too. That doesn't balance the few like me that leave the UK to go to other similar countries.

Its an unsustainable future driven by short term profit and lack of real investment in its citizens. Companies and people use the UK as a get rich scheme.

Id be the first to leave and move to the UK if i were from an Eastern European dump. Work here 5 years, live in squalor, move home a local Millionaire.

DM much ?

Does not work that way anymore I am afraid... Maybe for first 3-5 years yes, but then after it all gets leveled out and you are no longer able to be a local Millionaire if your country is a EU member.

Most profitable are the ones who stay in the "Dump" and suck on EU money... What Greece did, now those boys truly to get things going for them.

Really small number though get access.

 

[robgmun]

People like Farage either don't understand or just don't accept the 'New World Order' he wants to turn back the clock to the 50s/60s and that is not going to happen. Politicians have been talking about the NWO since George Bush Sr. A united Europe and ultimately a one world Government, one monetary system, one(or none) religious system, one judicial system. A united Europe is just the beginning.

So Farage isn't a lizard person? All the more reason to vote for him jsmoke!

 

[scorza]

I always find the Euro talks interesting. "left leaning" people tend to support the EU which is in fact beneficial to right wing economic policy. Whereas right leaning people prefer to go for nationalism and away from the EU, which would result in less positive right wing economic results.

That's a really good point, though I think it's a slightly unfair to imply that lefties don't want good economic results, we do it's just that we want the rewards from good economic results to be shared more equally amongst the the people who produced them. As the late Tony Benn said in one of his last interviews, there's now a huge disconnect between the people who create the wealth by working hard, and those who own the wealth. I think the EU can be a force for good in mitigating that disconnect.

No-one is going to claim the EU is perfect, and it never will be, but I think the reason why left wingers generally like the EU is that we look to the Nordics and Germany as a model that we want to apply here. Sure we're guilty of glossing over the ClubMed countries who perhaps aren't such good role models. The only thing I'm sure of is that close co-operation between nations is never a bad thing.

 

[Duke]

Farage came across as a man of real world experience but I felt that Clegg came across as a typical career politician.

Farage had the easy seat that Clegg had in the in the previous leaders TV debate a few years ago.

(not a fan of either particularly)