Young people feel robbed of a better life but they don't know what to do about it

[Buffman]

Of course your family background and circumstances dictate how you will do. It's not just a question of motivation, but of access.....

After reading those job prospects you made the right choice. Not a chance in hell I'd be jumping at that offer (I'd maybe consider it at 30k but prob not)

(Also recent, or soon to be graduate in engineering)

 

[Haggisman]

After reading those job prospects you made the right choice. Not a chance in hell I'd be jumping at that offer (I'd maybe consider it at 30k but prob not)

(Also recent, or soon to be graduate in engineering)

If it's the difference between that or living on the dole, I know what I'd choose

 

[Judgeneo]

Of course your family background and circumstances dictate how you will do. It's not just a question of motivation, but of access.

For example: My family have moved quite a lot and have a few children. This by its nature limits how much of a hand up I can get.

Contrast this to a single/double child who has parents with the resources to see the best in education and have the contacts to help the initial jump.

And yes, I feel the world is quite difficult. Sure I can survive, but I feel there is genuine lack of opportunity in being able to make a significant difference.

The last job offer I received wanted me (degree and nearly got my masters) to work 6 day weeks (Tuesday-Saturday) from 9am-8pm for 21k (euros), with a fixed term contract of 18 months.

Do I mind working long hours? It's not great but I'd do it
Do I mind 21k starting salary? Not great, but I'd do it.
Do I mind the 18 month contract? No problem.

Do I want to work in a fixed contract job, with no job at the end, with those hours and that pay? Not a chance. (This is a major bank by the way).

Tuesday - Saturday is 5 days a week Standard Middle eastern working week.

I received a similar offer at a technology company last year. The "assessment centre" was just an excuse for their salesmen to beat down your expectations, saying that we'll get you working at companies you wouldn't be able to get a graduate job at etc... Incredibly insulting and patronising. I'm now working at one of the companies they insisted I wouldn't be able to get a job at.

Its one thing to get your foot in the door, but there are quite a few firms out there at the moment who blatently abuse the desperation of young folk.

 

[D.P.]

Banks will only lend a multiplier of a persons salary, that means when house prices increase and salaries stay the same it is much harder to obtain a house.

When interest rates are at historic lows it is far easier to have larger mortgages relative to salaries.


When my parent's bought a house the interest rate was 18%. you needed 50% down-payments just to get the monthly payments reasonable! Now a days you can get a 95% mortgage and pay minimal amount of interest on it. Because of these kinds of differences banks lend higher ratios. In the past they would lend 2-3x annual salary, nowadays it is 3-5x!


When my parent's bought a house they could ford a car and a house so the car had to be sold (natural it was a very old barely running banger, but insurance, tax and fuel prices meant they couldn't run a car and have a mortgage. My day would walk several miles to a train station, then get a bus the other side and another mile walk. Back then there was far less support for childcare so it was required that the mother stayed at home looking after us children and thus reducing the family income substantially.

 

[Lord-Jaffa]

Multiplier is higher than it used to be, it is very easy to get a mortgagee.
Theres several main issues.
People don't want tomsacragive anything
People dont want a starter home, they want a good home in a good area.

Compare that to mine and I'm sure many other parents, who put everything they could for several years to get 10% (you only heed 5% now, and that's easily achievable with out such sacrifices) to get a house at the max the bank would lend (again you generally don't need to do that again now) and moved in with nothing, no carpets, no curtains nothing. And took ages to get everything and do the house up. And that's ignoring ll the lack of other items they had. Like dad had a motorbike and mum had no transport, compared to couples dropping loans on two cars, when a £600 car would do. And all the other things we "must" have these days.


Now I can easily get a mortgagee for 140k on my own, if I could sacrifice, get 5% deposit in well under a year, and be able to afford to do it up. Not that I would even need to spend 140k on a house. 140k gives loads of choice around here. Its not the most expensive area, but neither is Bristol cheap.


People just have rose tinted glasses about the past that is unfounded, other than a few years off boom (but that wasn't normal).

Even at 5% deposited, fixed for 7 years, its still way below the average mortgagee rates for the uk.


Simple fact is, it's still incredibly easy to get a house, if you want one. And it barely requires sacrifice, unlike the old days. Yes houses cost far more, but that in no way makes them less obtainable, when interest rates are low, banks loan more, goverment schemes etc.

Awesome, except for the fact that you can't even buy a studio flat here for that. No I won't move either, I Have lived in the same area for 30 years with my enitre family and friends + my partners family and friends. Why would I move 100 miles north and start over?

 

[Hagar]

In the old days,

I was earning £3500 and bought a house for 4x earnings. It was a small terraced house in a run down lancashire town and backed onto BICC cable works.

It was also a money pit requiring a DPC, rewiring and plumbing.

I believe that disposable income is far more now but many people demand far more in terms of transportation, entertainment, going out etc. than then. I could not afford both a car and a house, ran a Honda 90 to work and back. A TV did not come for about a year.

White goods and furnishings were proportionately more expensive then, as was essentials like food.

It certainly was several years before I could save anything and holidays were non existent.

 

[Buffman]

In 2010 I saved for a week's biking holiday in Spain. It cost £600 all in. 2010-2012 was 1 free week in my wife's parents caravan per year. But in 2012 we managed to do a cottage share with friends in Devon for a week £400 all in. Then 2013 was our honeymoon, and we only went because I did a month of night work + daily overtime to pay for it. So in 16 years I have been on holiday 8 times, 4 of which I didn't pay for.

So - those who think they can't afford to buy a house, how many times have you been on holiday in the last 16 years?

You've posted an interesting read and it's obvious you put the graft in. However you don't seem to consider things like work/life balance? (obviously this varies for everyone!)

Also your talk about holidays, what does 500 quid or so matter when you consider the interest alone on say a 150k is many times greater in magnitude. Personally I think this just seems a non justified attack on non home owners (they're allowed to have fun before getting on the ladder too you know!)

For what it's worth as a young person I feel the cost of rent is damn high. I'm going to be a high earner (already over the average of 24k I think thanks to years of education/uni) tho so it's not particularly going to cripple me financially like others where it seems impossible to get on it down south. Tbh even for me I have large doubts about wether I'd ever buy property down south however I will be saving as soon as I move to Cambridge after uni.

If it's the difference between that or living on the dole, I know what I'd choose

Agreed. However hopefully said poster has other opportunities coming their way

 

[Glaucus]

a 10% deposit in the old days would be a similar real terms amount as 5% now, since house prices have gone through more than a doubling in real terms.

In the old days, interest rates were high so, even with a smaller capital loan, repayments were similar to now, in real terms.

However, interest rates dropped off in the early-mid nineties, and prices rocketed. Repayments dropped to very low levels on what were now very valuable assets.

This gave a huge boost in the standard of living to that generation, which is unavailable to current generations.

What tosh, I have a far better standard of living than my parents, even though I'm unskilled and he had to train. You have to take everything into account. How many people donyou see moving into a run down house with nothing. How many people do you see giving up there nice cars to get a house. All his was common back in the old days. Not to mention when you take everything into account, things as simple as food is a lot cheaper now.

 

[Glaucus]

Awesome, except for the fact that you can't even buy a studio flat here for that. No I won't move either, I Have lived in the same area for 30 years with my enitre family and friends + my partners family and friends. Why would I move 100 miles north and start over?

What rubbish, even in London there's ~50 flats for under 150k and if you include everything within the m25 it's over 200 places you could buy.

Search surrey in right move and you have 92 houses and over 450 flats under 150k

Oh wait their not your dream house. That's the issue.
Just as bad as FTB that keep quoting average house price of 200-220k, your a FTB why are you even looking at average. Unless you're loaded, that has never been the case.

 

[D.P.]

Awesome, except for the fact that you can't even buy a studio flat here for that. No I won't move either, I Have lived in the same area for 30 years with my enitre family and friends + my partners family and friends. Why would I move 100 miles north and start over?

And there is the reason - you wont move. So what do you expect to happen, gold coins to fall out of the sky on your lap?

It is the 21st century, no the middle ages. If you want good job prospects you have to move across the county, or even to different countries.

one of my friend stayed put- they all left our small home town and went to London, abroad or other big cities.

 

[Haircut]

My Dad was a few months younger than I am now when we moved into the house that they still live in now.
At the time he was supporting 2 children on a single wage and while it was a struggle for a while it was affordable.

That same house is now worth around £500K going by what next doors sold for a couple of years ago.
To buy the house now with the same percentage deposit they had then would need a £300K mortgage, something that would be well out of reach for his wage.

If you look at the number of people who couldn't afford to buy the house they already live in at current market prices it shows there's something wrong with the property market.
Hell, I only bought my place in 2012 and would really struggle to afford to buy it now given how much things have gone up around here recently.

 

[FoxEye]

It's agreed across the board that housing demand currently exceeds supply. The govt themselves admit it. Forecasts are that the gap between the two will widen in future years.

So, perhaps you guys would like to answer a simple question.

Let's assume that the people currently unable to buy a house were able to increase their income. Worked more overtime, got better jobs, etc (assuming that would even be possible for 100% of these people). Let's now assume that everybody could afford to buy a house.

Now let's remember that there aren't enough houses to go around.

Question: what happens to house prices, and indeed rents, in this case?

Who here is going to be brave enough to say "House prices and rents would not increase".

So there you have it. Even should everyone currently priced out of the market manage to double/triple/quadruple their income, still people would be unable to live in their own home. Landlords would make a killing, however.

 

[Lord-Jaffa]

And there is the reason - you wont move. So what do you expect to happen, gold coins to fall out of the sky on your lap?

It is the 21st century, no the middle ages. If you want good job prospects you have to move across the county, or even to different countries.

one of my friend stayed put- they all left our small home town and went to London, abroad or other big cities.

What? Why Would I have to move when I already have a decent job, Also I live outside the M25, there is no way on earth I would move closer to London. I have all the Job prospects I could want should I ever want to work in the city, which I most defiantly do not. I have kids settled in local school/nursery as well.

Did you not read my post? I have a family, why the hell would I want to move across the country and move them away from cousins, aunts, uncles, grandparents? I take it you are single then? The "why don't you just move" brigade must not have any responsibility at all, I'm sure it is easy to just up and move if you are a complete loner and don't mind leaving what little family you must have behind.

 

[D.P.]

I was earning £3500 and bought a house for 4x earnings. It was a small terraced house in a run down lancashire town and backed onto BICC cable works.

It was also a money pit requiring a DPC, rewiring and plumbing.

I believe that disposable income is far more now but many people demand far more in terms of transportation, entertainment, going out etc. than then. I could not afford both a car and a house, ran a Honda 90 to work and back. A TV did not come for about a year.

White goods and furnishings were proportionately more expensive then, as was essentials like food.

It certainly was several years before I could save anything and holidays were non existent.

When my parents purchased their first house they couldn't afford furniture, carpets or curtains for most of the house. They slept on camp beds for some months until they had enough savings to buy a bed. Much of the furniture initially cam form looking in skips, going to the dump and browsing charity shops. It took time to replace these things with new items, and that often meant forgoing a holiday. Eating out at a restaurant once done once or twice a year, there were no takeouts. I mentioned previously that the car had to be sold because of the running costs.

And my parents were both university educated (Cambridge) both with PhDs, my Dad worked as a lecturer, so highly skilled and trained and reasonably well paid relatively. And they both moved from the SE up to Scotland for work!
As children they would wake up and have to scrape ice off the inside of the windows and on really cold nights their glass of water on the bedside table would freeze over (winter of 1963 probably) - all because the heating was too expensive to run all night and double glazing didn't exist!

How attitudes have changed, smart phone and expensive contracts, sky, broadband, newish cars, going out to the cinema or getting take outs weekly, new designer clothing, expensive shoes, computers, big TVs as standard, having the thermostat at 24*C in winter.


I have it so much easier than my parents there is just no comparison.

 

[D.P.]

What? Why Would I have to move when I already have a decent job, Also I live outside the M25, there is no way on earth I would move closer to London. I have all the Job prospects I could want should I ever want to work in the city, which I most defiantly do not. I have kids settled in local school/nursery as well.

Did you not read my post? I have a family, why the hell would I want to move across the country and move them away from cousins, aunts, uncles, grandparents? I take it you are single then? The "why don't you just move" brigade must not have any responsibility at all, I'm sure it is easy to just up and move if you are a complete loner and don't mind leaving what little family you must have behind.

Nope, i'm married and have my own family - we moved to the USA to get better job prospects.


If you like it where you are then don't complain at the house prices or salaries.

 

[Glaucus]

When my parents purchased their first house they couldn't afford furniture, carpets or curtains for most of the house. They slept on camp beds for some months until they had enough savings to buy a bed. Much of the furniture initially cam form looking in skips, going to the dump and browsing charity shops. It took time to replace these things with new items, and that often meant forgoing a holiday. Eating out at a restaurant once done once or twice a year, there were no takeouts. I mentioned previously that the car had to be sold because of the running costs.

And my parents were both university educated (Cambridge) both with PhDs, my Dad worked as a lecturer, so highly skilled and trained and reasonably well paid relatively. And they both moved from the SE up to Scotland for work!
As children they would wake up and have to scrape ice off the inside of the windows and on really cold nights their glass of water on the bedside table would freeze over (winter of 1963 probably) - all because the heating was too expensive to run all night and double glazing didn't exist!

How attitudes have changed, smart phone and expensive contracts, sky, broadband, newish cars, going out to the cinema or getting take outs weekly, new designer clothing, expensive shoes, computers, big TVs as standard, having the thermostat at 24*C in winter.


I have it so much easier than my parents there is just no comparison.

Exactly, but somehow people think we are worse off. I think people just don't know what the passed used to be like.

 

[Lord-Jaffa]

Nope, i'm married and have my own family - we moved to the USA to get better job prospects.


If you like it where you are then don't complain at the house prices or salaries.

 

[Erich Kriegler]

So many high horses ITT

 

[BuffetSlayer]

You've posted an interesting read and it's obvious you put the graft in. However you don't seem to consider things like work/life balance? (obviously this varies for everyone!)

Hah! Work life balance is is something you wont have the luxury of to start off with, unless you are very lucky, and generally most people are not.

I don't want to burst anyone's bubble, but successful people don't just do mon-fri 9-5 all of their lives. They do the graft and the silly hours and put in the spade work to achieve something. Either build up their own business or progress their career as an employee. Sure the likes of Branston and Sugar look like they have an easy life but they grafted the same as anyone at the start. They took the risks, they gambled on losing everything if a decision was the wrong one. I don't look at people like that and think they are simply lucky. FoxEye made a comment about my view being as someone who has a nice house/job etc already (IE it is easy for me to preach and I don't understand the pressures of young people today ). Do you think young people today are unique somehow? Do you think that the previous generation(s) did not also have to tackle problems and work their backsides off to get anywhere in life? Young people today face no worse problems than I faced, or those before me faced. I didn't just leave home and buy a detached house on a nice estate straight off the bat. I rented. I house shared with my brother. I even moved out of my home town.

When it came to buying we had to move out of the area we lived in because we couldn't afford the prices. Ho hum, tough luck for us. If we had the attitude of "why should I move out of the area" we would never have bought a house.

The bottom line is, if you want something - I mean really want it, you can do it. I suspect that many people see someone like me and think I have no idea. I don't have a clue. I have my house I have my comfortable life and I just don't get it.

Wrong. I get it perfectly well, that is why I have a nice home and a comfortable life. It is ironic that the kind of people that will accuse me as having no clue are actually the ones without a clue

Also your talk about holidays, what does 500 quid or so matter when you consider the interest alone on say a 150k is many times greater in magnitude. Personally I think this just seems a non justified attack on non home owners (they're allowed to have fun before getting on the ladder too you know!)

Please do not misconstrue my meaning. I have no problems with younger folk having fun and going on the holidays and having the cars. But then please do not turn around and complain you don't have a deposit for a house or that you can't afford rent. You pay your money, you make your choices.

That is a tough lesson in life that young people these days seem to fail at learning. Truthfully, unless you are very fortunate you will not be able to have your cake and eat it. If you are under the illusion you can, or that people like me had our cake and eat it you are sadly misled.

I went without a lot to be able to have the life I have now. I made my choices and now I reap the reward. When I was working in a factory on shifts and I often felt like giving up. I used to think why should I work so hard and have nothing to show for it, what is the point.

Well my position in life now is the point. Young people today have to try and look at the bigger picture, the long term and grasp the nettle and get their heads down and graft.

For what it's worth as a young person I feel the cost of rent is damn high. I'm going to be a high earner (already over the average of 24k I think thanks to years of education/uni) tho so it's not particularly going to cripple me financially like others where it seems impossible to get on it down south. Tbh even for me I have large doubts about wether I'd ever buy property down south however I will be saving as soon as I move to Cambridge after uni.

As I said, when I left home I rented a one bed flat for £480 + electricity + council tax + food etc etc. I had barely anything left out of my wages. But I wasn't at home, I was making my own way in life as an independent adult. This was lesson 1 in growing up. There have been many, many more.

Also - I don't have an issue with people who don't own their homes. I wouldn't if it wasn't for my wife insisting. Renting gave us far more disposable income and allowed for more freedom of movement if we wanted to move around.

We went from paying £600 a month rent, + the usual council tax and bills to paying out £1,000 a month on the mortgage + life insurances + bills etc. Our total outgoings to run the house we now live in are double what it cost to rent the same kind of place. I just think of all the holidays we could be going on and all the fun we could be having!! But no, we bit the bullet and bought a house as an investment (Again the big picture. The long term outlook).

We recently remortgaged and could have seen a nice drop in monthly payments and the temptation was high. Instead we decided to pay the same on a mortgage with a lower interest rate than we had before. In so doing we knocked 4 years straight off our mortgage term. In another 18 months we will remortgage again on a fixed rate. If the interest rates are still low, our LTV will have dipped below the 60% mark and we will be able to knock another big chunk off the term. The reason is because we bought fairly late, and didn't want a full term mortgage hanging over us. If my long term plans come to fruition we will own this house outright after just 16 years from the date we moved in. But anything can happen between now and then.

So we are paying through the nose to try and reduce the term ASAP. So in 2028 when we are mortgage free and the people we know who decided to pay less instead of reducing the term still have years to pay and we are enjoying our middle years mortgage free, the effort will be worth it.

Of course my plans could all fail and we lose the house for one reason or another. But that is no reason not to have a plan, or to work at bringing it to fruition. If bad things happen we will cross that bridge when we come to it.

Expect the best, prepare for the worst

What? Why Would I have to move when I already have a decent job, Also I live outside the M25, there is no way on earth I would move closer to London. I have all the Job prospects I could want should I ever want to work in the city, which I most defiantly do not. I have kids settled in local school/nursery as well.

Did you not read my post? I have a family, why the hell would I want to move across the country and move them away from cousins, aunts, uncles, grandparents? I take it you are single then? The "why don't you just move" brigade must not have any responsibility at all, I'm sure it is easy to just up and move if you are a complete loner and don't mind leaving what little family you must have behind.

If you want to buy a house but cannot afford the area you live in, you have to buy in an area that you can afford. It is a simple equation. Dont blame the govenment because you happen to live somewhere that is out of your price range.

I had to move away from my home town, away from all of my family.

We also had to move away from the lovely area where we were renting when it did become time to buy because we couldn't afford to buy in that area.

I barely see my family now. It sucks, and I really miss them, but it is the only way I could afford to buy.

That's just life, and sometimes it sucks! But if you want something bad enough - you will put up with it.

 

[Buffman]

And buffet slayer, what position do you see yourself in if you were born say 10-20 years later? Still able to buy a house?