David Moyes disgracefully sacked
- Thread starter Robbo
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The older lot were always going to be cleared out, that was part of his remit, but then the board bottled it at Chelsea when the older lot started kicking off. Looks like similar is happening at Man Utd. Lost the confidence of the senior players ... pffff.
Caporegime
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I think my point was, media hyped up senior players being terrible to AVB and people on this forum, most of them, kept banging on about having to get rid of them to have any chance of being good again because these disruptive players would make it impossible.
Since then, getting rid of none of them, they've won two european titles, and improved drastically in the league again. The whole point was, the players(pretty much all of them by most accounts) disliked everything about AVB.
AVB/Moyes is directly comparable. They both went in changed everything, made enemies of certain players, lost the support of the team, performances got awful and both turned title competitive teams into 6-7th placed teams.
All the talk about needing to get rid of old players because they are disruptive is as sensible as the talk about getting rid of Terry/Lampard/Cole after AVB... it was complete rubbish then and rubbish now.
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But it was the job they were brought in for and the owners choked half way through. I wouldn't mind getting paid off like they have but its down to the owners not the managers.
I would have said AVB had the right idea at Chelsea. Terry, Lampard and Cole did and still do need shifting and replacing. The fact he didn't do well with them is irrelevant. And who are these players at Man U that are as good as, or have the legs of, Terry, Lampard and Cole of 2 years ago?
It's far worse at Man U, it's not a few players that need shifting and replacing, it's more a matter of who to keep. The squad is poor and wrung out. Set up to play in particular way and under peculiar conditions that no longer exist. No one is scared any more. Opposition or officials. The bubble is burst. You need to wake up to that. You're all still in the denial stage.
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That's just your opinion, and DM supports Arsenal.
You don't win the league by 11 points and then turn to rubbish in the space of a few months. Yes, players need replacing and so forth, but David Moyes was never the man for that job.
Why is Zaha going to be any different for Utd than he has been for Cardiff - yes he is very young, but hasnt really set alight (or even consistantly started) the Welsh team.
Waste of £15m imo for Utd.
This is what I was coming to believe as well
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The League wasn't that strong last year.That's just your opinion, and DM supports Arsenal.
You don't win the league by 11 points and then turn to rubbish in the space of a few months. Yes, players need replacing and so forth, but David Moyes was never the man for that job.
Ferguson certainly believed Moyes was up to it .... given time.
Sorry DM
Aye, but from winning the league by 11 points to 7th is only a swing of 20 odd points. Ferguson himself was worth 10 or so (at least) just by intimidation alone. Half the teams in the league turned up at OT already beaten - not because of the squad.
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Caporegime
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Nonsense, maybe 4/5 years ago but that hasn't happened for a while.
Yes, it wasn't as strong, but it wasn't rubbish either. Going from winning it very comfortably to struggling in almost every game isn't expected, or reasonable. I don't think it was entirely Moyes' fault, but a lot of it was - too much of it.
Maybe 1st time around the only ego that MIGHT have been good enough/ accepted it, the club didnt want (Maureen), so Moyes was a convenient fall guy?
Pep turned SAF down in NY during his recovery from cancer no doubt there were others too.
Who wants to be the guy who replaces a legend....much better to be the person who follows the person that came in after a legend.
Pep turned SAF down in NY during his recovery from cancer no doubt there were others too.
Who wants to be the guy who replaces a legend....much better to be the person who follows the person that came in after a legend.
You think the opposition or the officials became less intimidated by Ferguson over the last 4 / 5 years? It was almost his complete modus operandi. Anyway...I wonder how LvG will deal with having to run transfer targets past Rooney...
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I wonder how LvG will deal with having to run transfer targets past Rooney...
Im sure there was a recent direct quote (this year) from WR stating he had never asked or expected this
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Spot on.
That's not to say he doesn't get it...
Wayne Rooney was persuaded to change his mind about leaving Manchester United after being given the kind of privileged access to the club's spending plans that Sir Alex Ferguson had previously denied him, the Guardian can reveal.
Rooney was given advance notice about the £37.1m deal to sign Juan Mata and has also spoken at length to the manager, David Moyes, and the chief executive, Ed Woodward, about their vision of the club under the Glazer family's ownership, in complete contrast to what happened when Ferguson was in charge.
The England striker has been trusted with transfer-market information and kept in the loop about possible signings in a move that acknowledges his importance to the club and a recognition, at the highest level within Old Trafford, that a player of Rooney's stature deserves to know whether a team who have been struggling all season have the financial muscle and ambition to put it right.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jan/26/wayne-rooney-david-moyes-manchester-united-transfer
Sorry DM
Aye, but from winning the league by 11 points to 7th is only a swing of 20 odd points. Ferguson himself was worth 10 or so (at least) just by intimidation alone. Half the teams in the league turned up at OT already beaten - not because of the squad.
So just the 7 losses difference.
Or one fifth of the available games a season difference.
It's actually a 27 point difference, from league winners to 7th.
So deduct your arbitrary 10 points and add the remaining 17 to our current total
Puts us third.
Which is where Moyes was reasonably expected to get us, but failed miserably.
That only really applies if the fella who follows the legend is allowed to clear the decks. For whatever reason, whoever comes next still has a hell of a mess to clear up before any progress will be made.
So it was worse than anyone foresaw. Has no-one considered that this is a return to mean for the current squad, that Ferguson had them over-performing? That other teams are further down the line with their progression?
Honestly, I've never been a fan of Moyes, but anyone who thinks that sacking him and installing a different manager under the same conditions is a fix-all, or even a constructive thing to do given the situation is deluded.
Nobody is bothered that we aren't top of the league, more the general performances. The players aren't playing for the manager before you even consider any sort of decline (which isn't as dramatic as you seem to think).
Even with backing Moyes wouldn't be able to fix it, a more experienced manager at the top level will provide a much better outlook, and sort the squad out more quickly. It's easy to understand, nobody thinks a new manager will solve everything, but it will absolutely help.
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