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Why 'Watch Dogs' Is Bad News For AMD Users -- And Potentially The Entire PC Gaming Ecosystem

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LtMatt said:
Glad neither of you two are Dons. Would make this place extremely boring. :D
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I ended up arguing on the internet due to this thread!! :mad::(

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:p
 
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Curiously, however, Evangelho's story includes no statement from Nvidia—nor does it indicate that Nvidia was asked to comment. The story also makes some odd claims. It asserts, for example, that AMD's Mantle API "doesn't require" AMD graphics hardware to function and "will work equally well on Nvidia cards." (AMD told me at GDC that, with DirectX 12 now on the horizon, we're "probably not going to see" Mantle on Nvidia hardware.) Evangelho cites Mantle's purported vendor-agnosticism as evidence that AMD "clearly waves a banner of open-source development and ideals."

We've asked Nvidia to comment, and we're currently awaiting a response from the company. For what it's worth, though, a former Nvidia software engineer, John McDonald, sounded off on Twitter yesterday about this story. He wrote:

It is extremely frustrating to see an article criticizing work you did at a former employer and not being able to comment that the person who you are quoting from was just completely full of unsubstantiated [expletive]. Thanks, Forbes. . . . [A]nd while I never did, and certainly do not now, speak for nvidia, let me say that in the six years I was in devtech I *never*, not a single time, asked a developer to deny title access to AMD or to remove things that were beneficial to AMD.
 
LtMatt said:
I think you're mistaking me for the persons who are writing these articles. They are tech journalists, they do not work for either AMD or Nvidia. I merely post the articles here for discussion and give my two cents, as others are entitled to do as well. Nothing more to be said about it really.
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I'm not making that mistake at all, what I'm pointing out is how the articles intent is being perverted in this thread and used to push additional unsubstantiated claims by many people. And as always when questioned the reply is either take my word for it, wait and see or don't use the thread, the problem there is that if no-one questions what is put in these threads the posters take that as the proof that there right and then they start using these claims elsewhere as if there facts. And we end up with people believing what is nothing more than opinions, presumptions, half truths and in some cases lies.
 
Martini1991 said:
Cat, take your blinkers off.

I've ignored the 250x results (And the 270), because they're at the GPU bottleneck, you're just twisting to suit your argument, I ain't deflecting.
Also, where's the FX4170 and i3 in the same graph? Unless I'm silly, there isn't.

http://i.imgur.com/M4aUL5s.png

That's what I'm basing it on, the graph YOU posted.

Actually Cat, don't bother replying, if you want to split hairs over GPU bottlenecked scenario's, be my guest (Well, even when sometimes the AMD CPU's can't even max out the R9 270 completely without bottleneck). I wasn't ignoring the performance gains made by the AMD CPU's) merely your examples are TERRIBLE, unless you think performance parity between AMD and Intel using 250X's is good, or an FX83 reaching parity with an i3 (Using an inferior API) again is good.

They're poor examples, and show the complete opposite of competition.
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#2, Avenged7Fold: 290X @ 1300/1600, 4770K @ 4.5Ghz - Mantle FPS: Min 71.4 / Avr 86.3. Link
#3, whyscotty: 780 @ 1398/1902, 4770K @ 4.8Ghz - DirectX FPS: 61.9 / Avr 86.1. Link
#4, Protoo: 290X @ 1244/1690, AMD FX-9370 @ 5.12Ghz - Mantle FPS: Min 70.8 / Avr 84.3 - DirectX FPS: Min 38.1 / Avr 58.2. Link
#5, Gregster: GTXTitan @ 1306/1881, 3930K @ 5Ghz - DirectX FPS: Min 60.5 / Avr 84.2. Link

#7, Protoo: 290X @ 1208/1498, FX-9370 @ 4.9Ghz - Mantle FPS: Min 63.0 / Avr 80.3 - DirectX FPS: Min 36.0 / Avr 56.0. Link

#9, Humbug: 290P @ 1170/1430, AMD P-II x6 @ 4.17Ghz - Mantle FPS: Min 60.5 / Avr 72.6 - DirectX FPS: Min 27.5 / Avr 49.1. Link

On both Intel and AMD the CPU gets a boost with Mantle, those running AMD get a huge boost to match Intel or beat Intel in DirectX.

With a P-II i have gone from slow in DX to matching Gregs 5Ghz 3930K, Avenged has gone from slow with his 5.1Ghz FX-9370 to one of the fastest CPU's in the bench.
 
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humbug said:
#2, Avenged7Fold: 290X @ 1300/1600, 4770K @ 4.5Ghz - Mantle FPS: Min 71.4 / Avr 86.3. Link
#3, whyscotty: 780 @ 1398/1902, 4770K @ 4.8Ghz - DirectX FPS: 61.9 / Avr 86.1. Link
#4, Protoo: 290X @ 1244/1690, AMD FX-9370 @ 5.12Ghz - Mantle FPS: Min 70.8 / Avr 84.3 - DirectX FPS: Min 38.1 / Avr 58.2. Link
#5, Gregster: GTXTitan @ 1306/1881, 3930K @ 5Ghz - DirectX FPS: Min 60.5 / Avr 84.2. Link

#7, Protoo: 290X @ 1208/1498, FX-9370 @ 4.9Ghz - Mantle FPS: Min 63.0 / Avr 80.3 - DirectX FPS: Min 36.0 / Avr 56.0. Link

#9, Humbug: 290P @ 1170/1430, AMD P-II x6 @ 4.17Ghz - Mantle FPS: Min 60.5 / Avr 72.6 - DirectX FPS: Min 27.5 / Avr 49.1. Link

On both Intel and AMD the CPU gets a boost with Mantle, those running AMD get a huge boost to match Intel or beat Intel in DirectX.
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Yeah, and? You're basically reiterating something I already know.
Bearing in mind I've made it clear, and was among the first posting Thief Mantle benchmark gains (Incase you missed it, Mantle gave me decent performance gains ACROSS THE BOARD with Thief using my 4770k and R9 290, so by that notion, the gains you'd see on LOWER CPU's would be drastic)

My post was targeted at the results Cat was posting (As like I said, they were bad examples, as said, it shows an i3 out performing the FX83, which does the complete opposite in showing "good" competition)
 
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Martini1991 said:
Yeah, and? You're basically reiterating something I already know.
Bearing in mind I've made it clear, and was among the first posting Thief Mantle benchmark gains.
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As you said, CAT is using poor examples.

All reviewers use poor examples that i can see.
 
You made it hard to work out, you're basically in agreement with me (This is strange territory) :p?

Kaap's score looks low given his GPU clocks.
 
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So basically one side says one thing and the other side says it isn't so.

Its down to you who you want to believe.

I'll just leave you with this thought.

it seems to me that one of the biggest gripes with the whole Gameworks thing is that AMD cannot optimize for it, as said by this chap. (this quote seems to be used a few times in different articles)

Tech journalist Joel Hruska of ExtremeTech summarized why Nvidia’s GameWorks could end up providing a poor experience for consumers and potentially dangerous long-term obstacles for developers, in a stellar investigative piece he wrote last year:

"AMD is no longer in control of its own performance. While GameWorks doesn’t technically lock vendors into Nvidia solutions, a developer that wanted to support both companies equally would have to work with AMD and Nvidia from the beginning of the development cycle to create a vendor-specific code path. It’s impossible for AMD to provide a quick after-launch fix. This kind of maneuver ultimately hurts developers in the guise of helping them.”
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And yet the new driver that is being launched gives upto 25% improvement

amd-driver-improvement.png



For certain obviously there are things that AMD can do to optimize for this game else where did that 25% performance increase come from.
 
Martini1991 said:
Yeah, and? You're basically reiterating something I already know.
Bearing in mind I've made it clear, and was among the first posting Thief Mantle benchmark gains (Incase you missed it, Mantle gave me decent performance gains ACROSS THE BOARD with Thief using my 4770k and R9 290, so by that notion, the gains you'd see on LOWER CPU's would be drastic)

My post was targeted at the results Cat was posting (As like I said, they were bad examples, as said, it shows an i3 out performing the FX83, which does the complete opposite in showing "good" competition)
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Yet,you seem to have massive problems when an AMD CPU shows massive performance improvements in a game.

What you also don't seem to get is that AMD drivers thread less well than Nvidia ones,which makes a bigger problem with an AMD card.

Most reviews tend to use Nvidia cards like the GTX780/GTX780TI whose drivers have tended to do better with CPUs with weaker cores.

The Core i3 4330 will be as fast or faster than a FX8350 in most UE3 games,sometimes by a decent margin,especially with an AMD card.

Many were saying what is the point of Mantle,no one will use a £300+ GPU with a sub £100 CPU so it was all pointless.

The moment a sub £130 GPU with a sub £100 CPU shows gains,ignore and deflect away.

So a lightly threaded game shows massive improvements,and that should be ignored,and one based on a VERY OLD engine,from 2006.
 
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*Sigh*
You're literally arguing with yourself.

If you've got energy to burn, find me an AMD Windows 8.1 (So not one of these Honda fails with Windows 8) tablet that's available to buy, I still can't find one.
 
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Martini1991 said:
*Sigh*
You're literally arguing with yourself.

If you've got energy to burn, find me an AMD Windows 8.1 (So not one of these Honda fails with Windows 8) tablet that's available to buy, I still can't find one.
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Sigh! You said you wanted to end the argument and so did I,yet you could not stop putting in a side quip could you?? :rolleyes:

PS:

Don't blame Humbug for it either.
 
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