Audi A6 TDI- 2014

[[TW]Fox]

given that the BMW is more expensive new, I would expect a higher base spec.

The BMW was not more expensive new - in 2011 for example the A6 2.0 TDI S-Line was £32495 and the 520d M Sport was £32730. As near as makes no difference the same price.

As far as residuals, according to car-buyer, the Audi has better residuals

How can that possibly be the case? You tell me the 5 Series is more expensive used - and I agree with you - but you see above that both cars were the same price new. Therefore the residuals on the Audi must be poorer or you wouldn't be telling me the BMW was more expensive used


and I could get a similar priced 5 series, but it looked naff without those options you advised me to get and with them it was more expensive than the S-line I ended up buying. I thought the S-Line was the better looking, better quality interior and better value car overall.

I admit though the deciding factor that made me choose the A6 was ultimately the dealer service, Ridgeway in Salisbury and Dick Lovett in Swindon were both dreadful, one couldn't even be bothered to let me test drive a car unless I made an appointment later in the week. Poole Audi on the other hand let me test drive pretty much anything there and then.

This is not something I really consider when buying a car. With national AUC sites there is no requirement to buy locally anyway so it matters not how polite or rude the sales team of your nearest dealer is, IMHO. I will almost certainly never walk through the doors of the BMW dealer I purchased mine from ever again, for example, simply because they are some distance from me! Once you drive away the service offered by the sales team becomes irrelevant so to base your purchase on them seems strange. Rather like not buying a Samsung TV because the guy selling it to you is a prat. Odd. Once you've got the TV you need not deal with the salesman again..

I had a choice of buying a 520 or the A6, for me the A6 was the nicer car. That is the real difference, personal choice and what you want from a car.

I still don't understand why you insisted on the 4 cylinder models - your budget was enough for a 6 cylinder and it's a real shame you didn't try one. It changes the feel of the car, my 530d is very different to my fathers 520d in some respects.

 

[Dangerous Dave]

The standard spec is swings and roundabouts between the A6 and the F10/F11, you wouldn't buy either without certain optional extras fitted.

 

[Castiel]

The BMW was not more expensive new - in 2011 for example the A6 2.0 TDI S-Line was £32495 and the 520d M Sport was £32730. As near as makes no difference the same price.

The 520d M sport is a little under £2000 more than the 2.0 TDI S Line. The brand new A6 2.0 Ultra S-Line is £32835 so unless BMW have drastically risen their prices compared to Audi, would the two not be comparable now, and would not current new pricing influence resales of older cars anyway?

How can that possibly be the case? You tell me the 5 Series is more expensive used - and I agree with you - but you see above that both cars were the same price new. Therefore the residuals on the Audi must be poorer or you wouldn't be telling me the BMW was more expensive used

As I said, I could buy a base spec BMW for similar money, but the base spec A6 was better value.

and I could get a similar priced 5 series, but it looked naff without those options you advised me to get and with them it was more expensive than the S-line I ended up buying. I thought the S-Line was the better looking, better quality interior and better value car overall.

It was, that is why I bought it. Hence it being better value overall, I didn't have to pay extra for decent headlights as the Audi already has them, similarly with the sat nav screen, the Audi one was better than the base BMW one, again it meant bumping up the model (or rather getting a better spec'd car) which in turn bumps up the price. Base for base the Audi just seemed the better choice for me.

This is not something I really consider when buying a car. With national AUC sites there is no requirement to buy locally anyway so it matters not how polite or rude the sales team of your nearest dealer is, IMHO. I will almost certainly never walk through the doors of the BMW dealer I purchased mine from ever again, for example, simply because they are some distance from me! Once you drive away the service offered by the sales team becomes irrelevant so to base your purchase on them seems strange. Rather like not buying a Samsung TV because the guy selling it to you is a prat. Odd. Once you've got the TV you need not deal with the salesman again..

I use the dealer for aftercare as well, if their sales team are rubbish then that begs the question when it comes to other things, such as warranty, servicing and so on. And, no I wouldn't buy a samsung TV from someone whose salesman was a jerk, I'd buy it from someone who wasn't, or if the Panasonic was similar and there want much in it, then the sales team might sway my decision...hence why I went to more than one dealer...unfortunately there wasn't any difference between the two dealers I did try and they lost the sale..the Audi was a car I liked, I liked the exterior and interior look and feel of the cabin better anyway and the dealer was excellent, which gives me confidence in their after sales care as well.

What's odd about that...you just think its odd that not everyone feels the need to buy a BMW.

I still don't understand why you insisted on the 4 cylinder models - your budget was enough for a 6 cylinder and it's a real shame you didn't try one. It changes the feel of the car, my 530d is very different to my fathers 520d in some respects.

It was enough for what I wanted. I drove several cars and chose the one I liked overall the best. I don't see what's hard to understand really. I didn't choose as you would, but then I'm not you and also I have little or no brand loyalty. I just buy what I like at the time. My next car might well be a BMW, it might be a Ford..who knows. It might well be something mad....although I do like the A8 since driving one last week.

 

[xs2man]

This is not something I really consider when buying a car. With national AUC sites there is no requirement to buy locally anyway so it matters not how polite or rude the sales team of your nearest dealer is, IMHO. I will almost certainly never walk through the doors of the BMW dealer I purchased mine from ever again, for example, simply because they are some distance from me! Once you drive away the service offered by the sales team becomes irrelevant so to base your purchase on them seems strange. Rather like not buying a Samsung TV because the guy selling it to you is a prat. Odd. Once you've got the TV you need not deal with the salesman again..



I still don't understand why you insisted on the 4 cylinder models - your budget was enough for a 6 cylinder and it's a real shame you didn't try one. It changes the feel of the car, my 530d is very different to my fathers 520d in some respects.

I see your point, at point of sale, you are, of course, correct. But hooped having to drive 100+ mile round trip for your servicing, or any warranty issues because your local two dealers are muppets. Wouldn't be enough for me not to have bought the BMW mind you, I did look VERY closely at the A6 before buying the F11 (same as the 335d, as I had handed back my 3 month old A4 Black Edition for it). And I AM an Audi fan, although no longer of their diesel engines. But the 5 series just was the better car, by far. For me.

I also agree with the 6 cylinder models. It makes soooo much sense in the 3 series even, in the 5 it is just about a necessity. That said, when I was originally looking, I was looking at the little 4 pots in both. Thankfully the free pro nav, ambient lighting and better dealer contribution / residual value all combined to make the extra cost of the 2 cylinders a no brainer.

 

[[TW]Fox]

The 520d M sport is a little under £2000 more than the 2.0 TDI S Line.

The prices when your car was new are as I've quoted above. The difference was not £2000 back then - they were the same price.

, similarly with the sat nav screen, the Audi one was better than the base BMW one

I agree that the base BMW screen is rubbish however, despite being rubbish, its also exactly the same size as the base Audi screen, which I'd also consider unacceptable in terms of size? The base Audi one is no bigger..

you just think its odd that not everyone feels the need to buy a BMW.

Not at all. Buy what you want - but discussing the merits of the A6 versus its rivals in a thread about the A6 seems like a fairly useful use of the forum to me. Beats arguing about religion in GD surely

I went into the idea of an A6 open minded but for me what ruined it for me perhaps more than the strange popup nav screen was the really bizarre drive-train gap they have in the range.
The only way to avoid both front wheel drive *and* get a proper gearbox that fits the type of car it is to buy the 313bhp BiTDI. This for me is very strange - both Mercedes and BMW will offer you the proper gearbox irrespective of your engine choice. Why do Audi insist on forcing you to have a DSG (Who on earth wants a DSG executive barge?) or a horrible CVT unless you buy the 313bhp model? It's nonsensical.

Come on Audi, *FOUR* gearbox options? Really?

 

[Castiel]

The prices when your car was new are as I've quoted above. The difference was not £2000 back then - they were the same price.

So BMW have increased the price of their 520d MSport while Audi have not?

And you don't think that current pricing affects resale values? Particularly when looking at buying a car with specific options attached.

Interestingly a quick flick through Parkers puts the resale value of a 2012 (61) BMW Msport 520d (22730) slightly above the equivalent A6 Sline (61 2012) (£21225) although it lists the respective base prices as £32495 for the Audi and £33,330 for the BMW. Which is good because I paid less than that for my A6.

I agree that the base BMW screen is rubbish however, despite being rubbish, its also exactly the same size as the base Audi screen, which I'd also consider unacceptable in terms of size? The base Audi one is no bigger..

But it still looks better, size isn't everything, how it looks on the dash is more important to me...the BMW one looked really naff, the Audi one doesn't. I also like the motorised screen and being able to fold it way at night etc. the BMW just didn't do it for me with its interior.

[QUOTE='[TW]Fox;26410142]Not at all. Buy what you want - but discussing the merits of the A6 versus its rivals in a thread about the A6 seems like a fairly useful use of the forum to me.

I went into the idea of an A6 open minded but for me what ruined it for me perhaps more than the strange popup nav screen was the really bizarre drive-train gap they have in the range.
The only way to avoid both front wheel drive *and* get a proper gearbox that fits the type of car it is to buy the 313bhp BiTDI. This for me is very strange - both Mercedes and BMW will offer you the proper gearbox irrespective of your engine choice. Why do Audi insist on forcing you to have a DSG (Who on earth wants a DSG executive barge?) or a horrible CVT unless you buy the 313bhp model? It's nonsensical.

Come on Audi, *FOUR* gearbox options? Really?[/QUOTE]

An auto is an auto to me, I don't know enough about them to judge...as you know I prefer manuals anyway, another reason to buy the Audi. Each car has its pluses and minuses to be fair, they are different cars after all. I preferred the Audi, I may prefer the BMW next time out...if they up the styling a bit.

I think its is mostly down to personal choice and how much value you place on certain things over others.

It may all be different in two or so years when I buy the next one, I'm thinking of buying new next time so I can spec what I want rather than settling for a compromise.

 

[[TW]Fox]

So BMW have increased the price of their 520d MSport while Audi have not?

BMW have done the typically BMW-thing of facelifting the car whilst adding lots of options as standard but increasing the price by what the options would have cost. So, yea, it's more expensive now, but the standard spec is more generous than before. But this wasn't the case back when our cars were new.

And you don't think that current pricing affects resale values?

No, I do not. A £2k increase in the current list price of a 2014 car is not particularly relevant to people in the market for 3-4 year old cars at £10-£15k less money.

We both agree the Audi was cheaper used than the BMW was. I whinged about it myself when looking for cars. We can also agree that, in 2011, both cars were the same price. This means a 2011 A6 has not demonstrated better residuals than a 2011 F10 would have done

An auto is an auto to me

For a start the DSG box isn't really even an auto, which is half the issue. Only one of the options is a proper auto and it's only offered on the BiTDI. Just.. WHY

 

[Castiel]

Audi models have added options as standard also, including a revision of their 2.0 TDI. Without significant increases in price though.

We both agree the Audi was cheaper used than the BMW was. I whinged about it myself when looking for cars. We can also agree that, in 2011, both cars were the same price. This means a 2011 A6 has not demonstrated better residuals than a 2011 F10 would have done

A 61 Audi was cheaper than a 61 BMW. The 11 plates were the previous model on the A6 as far as I am aware, with the New A6 not being released until late 2011.

For a start the DSG box isn't really even an auto, which is half the issue. Only one of the options is a proper auto and it's only offered on the BiTDI. Just.. WHY

So the S tronic is a DSG and the multitronic is the CVT?

This is why I stick to manuals...lol.

 

[[TW]Fox]

A 61 Audi was cheaper than a 61 BMW. The 11 plates were the previous model on the A6 as far as I am aware, with the New A6 not being released until late 2011.

Come on, I'm not daft enough to have been looking at prices for the previous gen A6.

So the S tronic is a DSG and the multitronic is the CVT?

Yup. I guess my dislike of the DSG in a car like the A6 is a personal thing and choice is good but they don't offer you choice - if you dont want a manual A6 you are forced to have either a CVT - which is horrible - or a DSG, unless you pick the BiTDI

This is why I stick to manuals...lol.

I was honestly surprised you did that, I think the 8 speed auto in the F10 finally makes a 4 pot diesel tolerable

 

[Castiel]

Come on, I'm not daft enough to have been looking at prices for the previous gen A6.

But you were comparing the BMW price prior to the release of the A6 C7, like for like the BMW was more expensive and has become increasingly so since.

Yup. I guess my dislike of the DSG in a car like the A6 is a personal thing and choice is good but they don't offer you choice - if you dont want a manual A6 you are forced to have either a CVT - which is horrible - or a DSG, unless you pick the BiTDI

So which auto was in the A8 3.0 Quattro I was driving recently? That one was actually pretty good considering I like manuals as a rule.

You know the only real thing that bugs me about the A6 is the paint, or rather the acrylic clear coat they use, it scratches just by looking hard at it, easily polished out, but its bloody annoying especially on a black car.

 

[[TW]Fox]

But you were comparing the BMW price prior to the release of the A6 C7

No I wasn't. Give me a bit of credit at least? That was the price of the F10 and C7 at the C7's launch

So which auto was in the A8 3.0 Quattro I was driving recently?

The proper 8 speed one - as found in the F10 5 Series and the BiTDI A6.

 

[Castiel]

No I wasn't. Give me a bit of credit at least? That was the price of the F10 and C7 at the C7's launch

Not according to what I can find and posted above..but its not really important any more tbh. I suspect that my local ridge way/woods is a ripoff merchant anyway going by what some have told me since and Parkers puts the residuals around the same.

The proper 8 speed one - as found in the F10 5 Series and the BiTDI A6.

That one was pretty good. Still kept looking for the clutch pedal though.

 

[Lashout_UK]

You can get DSG four-cylinder A6 diesels now, replacing the old Multitronic

 

[xs2man]

That's not the gearbox Fox is talking about though,

 

[Lashout_UK]

That's not the gearbox Fox is talking about though,

Ah, sorry - jumped in half way through the convo. I thought the DSG was a good option in the A6, did its job very well

 

[Howard]

Whereas I quite liked the CVT in the A4 TDI I drove a while back. Seemed to suit the engine quite well.

 

[xs2man]

The DSG is a decent option in a sporty hatchback or similar, but a luxo-barge like the A6 is more suited to the likes of the ZF 8-Speed box.

The CVT is old technology. I used to have a A4 8-speed Multitronic with the CVT, and it was fine, if you didn't actually care, but it killed the fuel economy, and wasn't particularly fast.

If the gearbox is there (in the Audi manufacturing plant), it should be an option to spec it regardless of the engine you choose. I mean you can get it in the 5 series with whatever engine you want.

 

[AshD93]

Whereas I quite liked the CVT in the A4 TDI I drove a while back. Seemed to suit the engine quite well.

I agree. Nothing wrong with the box if you want a car with a smooth drive and no jerking. Don't get all the hate for it. It shifts super quick and better economy then the DSG and Manual (iirc).

Though I'll admit it has its faults too. It doesn't creep instantly like most autos and if it stays at high revs, it makes the car sound annoying.

*awaits a slating*

 

[xs2man]

The CVT you're driving must be different from the one I had. In mine, the box was sloooooowwwwwww. Yeah, it was smooth for just general milling about, but if you decided on a burst of speed, it was really noticeably retarded. It's like when you put the foot down, it stumbles, panics, thinks, then drops 3 gears. Not like the ZF which feels almost like it has been anticipating all along.

As for the fuel economy, I figured it MUST have been costing me a good 3-4 mpg. I get the same consumption now out my 530d with ZF box as I did out my 2.0 (143) multitronic. That is significant, different auto box being the same as an extra 1000 cc'd and some extra weight.

 

[[TW]Fox]

I just think it's a fairly nasty thing and I dont know why they persisted with it for so long. Surley it must work out better to just standardise gearbox? BMW obviously think so, even if you buy a 116d auto you get the ZF 8 speed!