Gameworks, Mantle and a pot calling a kettle black

TheRealDeal · 10 Jun 2014 at 19:32

Rusty0611 said:
Nadda then.

As I said, it's just unsubstantiated rumours. You throw enough mud and some sticks.

It's similar to the general perception held by a lot of people that AMD drivers are rubbish. Is it true? Who knows - there's no real proof. It's just the same kind of unsubstantiated rubbish which gets perpetuated as fact similar to what you're saying.

Where do you draw the line at the game developer and the driver developers though? Basically, depending on where your bias lies you choose either the game developer or the driver developer. I know where your bias lies.

It's funny you made the court of law comparison earlier because some of the fallacious arguments I read on this subject (and not necessarily just your good self) wouldn't even stand up in a 10 pint pub discussion never mind a court of law.

Amd drivers are proving constantly that they are not rubbish over the years. These games are constantly showing stupid problems that should not be there. What you are describing is people holding onto the past not what is actually happening at present or in recent times.

TheRealDeal · 10 Jun 2014 at 19:33

whyscotty said:
Crap, loads of peeps using Nvidia having probs

Bad on Nvidia worse on Amd. Read around.

Gregster · 10 Jun 2014 at 19:34

TheRealDeal said:
Is there any point it's been all over these forums since i joined. Trying to show you proof is a waste of my time and energy. If you have not seen any proof over the years what makes you think you will see any in me regurgitating the same info.

Waste of my time end of story.

Well you have been a member as long as me and sadly I must have missed all the proof that nVidia are the bad guys and are sabotaging nVidia sponsored games for AMD users.

Don't take this the wrong way but I have never seen you have anything bad to say about AMD or anything they have done for their users but seem to have plenty to say how bad nVidia are. It is like you want to see something where nothing exists. AMD have not always been on the ball with their users now have they?

Rusty0611 · 10 Jun 2014 at 19:35

TheRealDeal said:
Amd drivers are proving constantly that they are not rubbish over the years. These games are constantly showing stupid problems that should not be there. What you are describing is people holding onto the past not what is actually happening at present or in recent times.

Uh huh way to take an example of a more general point as the point itself. Tragic.

whyscotty · 10 Jun 2014 at 19:36

TheRealDeal said:
Bad on Nvidia worse on Amd. Read around.

I have.

I bet you don't even have the game(PC)?

GoogalyMoogaly · 10 Jun 2014 at 19:39

TheRealDeal said:
Watchdogs is not something i think is conclusive yet the whole internet has it running far better on Nvidia. Amd frame times 3 times as bad compared to nvidia. It's another gameworks title and runs far worse on amd according to journalists. It is a ubisoft game though and i would be willing to say its down to that but it is another title where amd can't match the NV experience even when NV gpu's are not putting out a stellar experience.

Aren't most of the GameWorks games also Ubisoft games? Could it just be that Ubisoft are that bad? Nvidia DX drivers might just be a bit more tolerant of Ubisoft practices.

Rusty0611 said:
It's similar to the general perception held by a lot of people that AMD drivers are rubbish. Is it true? Probably not - there's no real proof. It's just the same kind of unsubstantiated rubbish which gets perpetuated as fact similar to what you're saying.

Shhhh you can't say that, there's no proof. AMD owners will get angry that you're spreading unsubstantiated rumours!

CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
It depends on how much help AMD is giving the studios. If they are providing funding and personal,then it might not be as big a hit as you think.

I suppose we need some more devs to talk about how much effort and time it takes to implement Mantle.

ATM,its all conjecture.

Unlike all this GameWorks controversy?

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 10 Jun 2014 at 19:44

The problem some of the devs,themselves made public statements before Nvidia started opening up things. One of them worked for Ubisoft.

These have been linked to in the other thread quite a few times,or should we just go in circles again??

TBH,I just wish both companies just stopped all these little stabs at each other.

TheRealDeal · 10 Jun 2014 at 19:44

Gregster said:
Well you have been a member as long as me and sadly I must have missed all the proof that nVidia are the bad guys and are sabotaging nVidia sponsored games for AMD users.

Don't take this the wrong way but I have never seen you have anything bad to say about AMD or anything they have done for their users but seem to have plenty to say how bad nVidia are. It is like you want to see something where nothing exists. AMD have not always been on the ball with their users now have they?

No you mean it was not proof in your eyes but was in mine. You have seen it or you were not reading this forum.

Its quit simple, my experience mainly due to budget has me using more amd hardware so i can have more input that way. I feel for the money they give as good as Nvidia. There is far more fud posted towards amd as well which goes against what i have experienced. I have used a lot of Nvidia hardware as my mate used to believe in brand Nvidia but having used his top end machine never felt i was missing out as at the same time i had cards such as the 9800pro and x1900xtx. He now uses amd gpu's because he does not like throwing money away for no reason.

Rusty0611 · 10 Jun 2014 at 19:45

I think he means the whole thing is just conjecture. I agree really.

I'd go further and say it just a load of old nonsense. But people will take their anecdotes and spin them as fact. I just hope that there's enough sane people left to waft it away and get to the crux of the matter

.

I can't handle some of the stupidity sometimes so I just have to ignore it otherwise I would be even more offensive than I already am

.

PhysicsMan94 · 10 Jun 2014 at 19:46

TheRealDeal said:
He now uses amd gpu's because he does not like throwing money away for no reason.

Clueless

There are plenty of features on my Nvidia cards that I couldn't get using an AMD solution. Perhaps the most important being CUDA for some of my simulation work, but sure I am throwing money away for no reason... :rolleyes:

TheRealDeal · 10 Jun 2014 at 19:50

PhysicsMan94 said:
Clueless

There are plenty of features on my Nvidia cards that I couldn't get using an AMD solution. Perhaps the most important being CUDA for some of my simulation work, but sure I am throwing money away for no reason...

There are features now that you can't get on Nvidia like Mantle and true audio. Features are subjective. I have only played one game on PC that used PHYSX and that was eve online and most would not use it. Features on each brand are subjective to what you like.

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 10 Jun 2014 at 19:50

PhysicsMan94 said:
Clueless

There are plenty of features on my Nvidia cards that I couldn't get using an AMD solution. Perhaps the most important being CUDA for some of my simulation work, but sure I am throwing money away for no reason...

Maybe he is a gamer and has no need for CUDA??

Heck,even the one potential use of CUDA for me,ie, Adobe CS has moved over to OpenCL which will work on AMD,Nvidia or Intel hardware.

A feature is a feature if you actually have use for it,be it from Intel,AMD or Nvidia. Otherwise it is just some useless tickbox,which all three companies will try to big up to get one over on the competition.

YMMV OFC.

TheRealDeal · 10 Jun 2014 at 19:52

CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
Maybe he is a gamer and has no need for CUDA??

Heck,even the one potential use of CUDA for me,ie, Adobe CS has moved over to OpenCL which will work on AMD,Nvidia or Intel hardware.

A feature is a feature if you actually have use for it,be it from Intel,AMD or Nvidia. Otherwise it is just some useless tickbox.

YMMV OFC.

+1

My pc is used for internet browsing, media and gaming. Had a first a few days ago where my card was used for encoding in nero but thats rare for me and don't know if Cuda is usable.

Rusty0611 · 10 Jun 2014 at 19:55

I hope you weren't pirating.

LtMatt · 10 Jun 2014 at 19:56

GoogalyMoogaly said:
Neutral party? Says who? Joel? Who died and made him the sole voice of truth?
And if GameWorks is a different code path then the same applies.
Again, I think for this to be sabotage it means that AMD GPU are forced to run GameWorks (i.e. can't turn the options off) AND that GameWorks treats AMD cards differently to Nvidia cards. If it's just a case that Nvidia are better able to optimise for the code in their own libraries than AMD then I can't see how this is an issue.

So what we need are neutral parties, that have used GameWorks and have seen the GameWorks source code, to tell us if there is a separate path for AMD users that purposely harms AMD performance. Anything less than that seems to be to be AMD (or it's users) trying to make themselves look like victims to gain sympathy.

You mean like Nvidia users suffering poor performance in Watch Dogs and the like? But in this case it's not game bugs it's sabotage?

Lol did you even read it? This is why i can never have a proper debate with you.

The neutral party happens to be Epic and valve game devs, plus the ones who spoke off the record. I give up lol.

TheRealDeal · 10 Jun 2014 at 19:59

Rusty0611 said:
I hope you weren't pirating.

1973 Tom Sawyer mkv file for my father in Law. He wants to show the kids and as far as i am aware you can't buy it. Anyway pirating that would not make me feel guilty lol.

Rusty0611 · 10 Jun 2014 at 20:01

It should do. It is still thieving no matter how the forum society tries to justify it

.

Might send the police round - I hope you connect to this forum through a proxy...

TheRealDeal · 10 Jun 2014 at 20:03

Rusty0611 said:
It should do. It is still thieving no matter how the forum society tries to justify it .

Might send the police round - I hope you connect to this forum through a proxy...

Lol it gets showed free on TV am sure after all these years they ain't bothered. I don't wanna go into pirating though as i do have morals towards it. I do think most £40-50 games should have demo's though so people can decide whether its worth throwing there money away on it or not. If it's good people will buy. To often the well off judge those that can't just throw money away on a game. Its the times we live in i am afraid.

Gregster · 10 Jun 2014 at 20:05

TheRealDeal said:
There are features now that you can't get on Nvidia like Mantle and true audio. Features are subjective. I have only played one game on PC that used PHYSX and that was eve online and most would not use it. Features on each brand are subjective to what you like.

Back in with AMD defence I see but you still have not supplied me any proof and you are driving around the houses now. Sure I like and use nVidia because they have a feature set which I like and mostly because when I did use my 6970, I had nothing but issues (forgetting to set the power target would result in game crashes) - Monitor would tell me to insert the correct cable, even though I was using the same cable and had no issues with it after putting an nVidia card back in. Was that nVidia or AMD at fault? Personally I blamed AMD but I am sure you will have a reason for me. I also appreciated that other 6970 users didn't have issues and I didn't feel the need to hold a grudge but the feature set of nVidia was what I liked, so I went back with them.

I have to be honest now and you have ignored the OP and just scooted to the defence of AMD without seeing the bigger picture. Both are as bad as each other (yep, that includes nVidia) and I see them as a faceless corporation who are out to make money. If they are happy to fight each other and in doing so, up the game to giving us better features, I am all for that.

You are still on a 6870, which is old (not being rude) and are missing out on the things you are praising. I don't praise CUDA, as it isn't something I use, whereas PhysicsMan does, so he has reason to buy nVidia. See my point?

Rusty0611 said:
It should do. It is still thieving no matter how the forum society tries to justify it .

Might send the police round - I hope you connect to this forum through a proxy...

TheRealDeal · 10 Jun 2014 at 20:12

Gregster said:
Back in with AMD defence I see but you still have not supplied me any proof and you are driving around the houses now. Sure I like and use nVidia because they have a feature set which I like and mostly because when I did use my 6970, I had nothing but issues (forgetting to set the power target would result in game crashes) - Monitor would tell me to insert the correct cable, even though I was using the same cable and had no issues with it after putting an nVidia card back in. Was that nVidia or AMD at fault? Personally I blamed AMD but I am sure you will have a reason for me. I also appreciated that other 6970 users didn't have issues and I didn't feel the need to hold a grudge but the feature set of nVidia was what I liked, so I went back with them.

I have to be honest now and you have ignored the OP and just scooted to the defence of AMD without seeing the bigger picture. Both are as bad as each other (yep, that includes nVidia) and I see them as a faceless corporation who are out to make money. If they are happy to fight each other and in doing so, up the game to giving us better features, I am all for that.

You are still on a 6870, which is old (not being rude) and are missing out on the things you are praising. I don't praise CUDA, as it isn't something I use, whereas PhysicsMan does, so he has reason to buy nVidia. See my point?

Can't be bothered reading that after the first sentence. Most of my years on PC were spent playing competitive with just about the lowest of settings. Sof2 for 5 years and all cods up until cod 4 modern warfare. I am pretty competitive or used to be so graphics were not my thing. Gameplay is where it's at tbh and i feel you would rate graphics over gameplay. I have used cards such as the 9800pro, 1900xtx and the 8800gtx. Look at my spec now to see how much graphics matters. Most of my favourite games over the last 5 years have been on the lowly consoles.

I might defend amd now and then but tbh you are blind where Nvidia are concerned.