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Gameworks, Mantle and a pot calling a kettle black

TheRealDeal said:
Do you believe that Nvidia could do what some think they do.
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Could they, possibly, didn't Intel get in a lot of trouble for something like that though?
I think AMD could do it just as easily as Nvidia.

I also believe that Nvidia could be innocent and AMD could be making it into a big deal to benefit themselves from the publicity. Do you?
 
GoogalyMoogaly said:
Could they, possibly, didn't Intel get in a lot of trouble for something like that though?
I think AMD could do it just as easily as Nvidia.

I also believe that Nvidia could be innocent and AMD could be making it into a big deal to benefit themselves from the publicity. Do you?
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I don't know law to well so the risk factor to me is unknown. Sure amd could twist it but that would require Nvidia giving them something to twist. These companies ain't stupid.
 
TheRealDeal said:
I don't know law to well so the risk factor to me is unknown. Sure amd could twist it but that would require Nvidia giving them something to twist. These companies ain't stupid.
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And yet you think Nvidia would write code to intentionally hurt AMD performance?
They didn't think it would get spotted by someone, like say, AMD?
Then maybe there'd be a lot of discussions and the like in which they could get labelled as the bad guy?

These companies ain't stupid.
 
GoogalyMoogaly said:
And yet you think Nvidia would write code to intentionally hurt AMD performance?
They didn't think it would get spotted by someone, like say, AMD?
Then maybe there'd be a lot of discussions and the like in which they could get labelled as the bad guy?

These companies ain't stupid.
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Well if you listen to the articles amd were not aloud to see the code. If you know anything about this world then you know money talks. Nothing is impossible.
 
GoogalyMoogaly said:
I believe in those articles it also says that AMD were able to see the game code and the developers were able to see the GameWorks code.
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Does it because i have seen plenty from Matt's twitter with Dev's from Ubi saying that working with nvidia stuff is like throwing the code through a black box. I picked the ubi dev as they are a partner and maybe there was 2 can't remember it's all on this forum. Maybe you just forgot. This is from people that work on games and with Nvidia. Theres plenty of stuff either way. It's how you read it tbh.

I take it if it's not from Jen then it's not true?
 
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IIRC a lot twitter comments are from people that arent officially commenting as a company rep eg a lot of the Comments are opinion's personal preferences not the official stance , Much like opinion's here
Where as at least some of the articles they have been up front and official reply's and not Off the records comments either which basically might aswell be thrown out as they may or may not even be true as its not stated who said what you cant check if they did
 
triss said:
IIRC a lot twitter comments are from people that arent officially commenting as a company rep eg a lot of the Comments are opinion's personal preferences not the official stance , Much like opinion's here
Where as at least some of the articles they have been up front and official reply's and not Off the records comments either which basically might aswell be thrown out as they may or may not even be true as its not stated who said what you cant check if they did
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Yep so there's more truth to there opinions as these are the guys working with the code. If you want to know a company ask the guys working for them not the directors and company stance lol. Ubisoft themselves are hardly gonna shoot themselves in the foot and say it.

They might as well be thrown out because the big bad company that's mainly after money never said it. If we can't listen to the employee's that still work in these places then who can we. They were having a full blown conversations on twitter and there was 5-6 different people all in the game business saying this yet it's got to be chucked out. I think 2 of them were Ubisoft. How can you overlook this kind of stuff. I am not telling you to 100% believe it but to dismiss it is plain madness.

Seriously for me there has been enough of a case to say that where Nvidia is concerned dodgy things can or do happen. I am not saying don't buy there hardware as it's your own money and you can spend it on what you want or like. You would have to be blind though to think it's all rosy.
 
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Let's think about all this logically now.

  • First we have claims that AMD were locked out from the actual game code in a few games which utilise the GameWorks libraries. There is not much in the way of evidence to back up these claims, however, and it seems it's mostly based on speculation and conjecture from the usual anti-Nvidia crowd and authors of articles online whom are renowned to have a history of repetitive Nvidia hatred.
  • If we consider this for a second we realise that for such claims to be true a games development company would have to be willingly locking out or peeing off around 40% of their PC market. It is fairly obvious at this point that Nvidia would have to pay a significant sum of money to a developer in order for them to be willing for this to happen, and the risks are that the games development company's reputation would likely be knocked and if the truth got out then Nvidia's reputation would also fall; both events resulting in decreased profits for the developers involved.
  • So based on the last bullet point it is fairly clear to see that such a venture by Nvidia and the involved developers would be pretty much completely pointless due to it resulting in negative reputation, decreased profitability and a poorer industry record. Now neither the developers nor Nvidia are stupid and anything which affects the bottom line adversely will not go ahead unless absolutely necessary.
  • Thus far the claims from the AMD proponents on Nvidia's bribery to lock AMD out of the game code for any GW title are looking shaky at best and utter horse turd at worst. So where to go from here? Well, now that the speculators realise that their hypothesis is nonsense they either continue peddling their bs claims, they choose another angle of attack on Nvidia and their associated partners or they concede and admit they were wrong.
  • Unfortunately I haven't seen many take the logical latter approach given their severe lack of evidence for any of the claims so far, a few take the former option and end up looking like crackpot, young earth creationist lunatics peddling nonsense continuously, but most seem to have taken the second option and instead opted to push a different claim against Nvidia.
  • So what are the new claims? Well it was very predictable really what would happen next - the anti-Nvidia crowd start to push the speculation that instead of AMD being locked out from the game code their performance was instead sabotaged by code segments forced by the GameWorks libraries which were entirely designed to punish AMD cards thereby reducing their performance within the game. Of course these claims were not backed up by anything other than a few select tweets from disgruntled former employees of Nvidia/Ubisoft who could've been the cleaners for all we know.
  • But, again, let's examine this new claim in detail. And, again, it turns out the lines of reasoning which leads us to the conclusion that the claims are, again, utter bs are very similar to those given in bullet point number 2 - in short, Nvidia and game developer risk knocks in industry reputation and mid-long term profitability and game developer would pee off around 40% of their PC market leading to decreased profitability all around (short-long term).
  • Also we must pay heed to the words given by current Nvidia employees who have publicly tweeted about this whole hideous façade, in which they say that they have never told any of their staff to gimp performance on AMD cards and so nothing of this sort has actually ever happened; and we have no reason to disbelieve them.
  • Alas, of course the anti-Nvidia crowd claim that we must not trust a word that Nvidia employees say however it is fine to go along with the claims of AMD employees and their pet backers in the online media industry. And, thus, this whole debacle (even though it is based on utter nonsense) goes on and on.
  • Regular. As. Clockwork.
 
PhysicsMan94 said:
Let's think about all this logically now.

  • First we have claims that AMD were locked out from the actual game code in a few games which utilise the GameWorks libraries. There is not much in the way of evidence to back up these claims, however, and it seems it's mostly based on speculation and conjecture from the usual anti-Nvidia crowd and authors of articles online whom are renowned to have a history of repetitive Nvidia hatred.
  • If we consider this for a second we realise that for such claims to be true a games development company would have to be willingly locking out or peeing off around 40% of their PC market. It is fairly obvious at this point that Nvidia would have to pay a significant sum of money to a developer in order for them to be willing for this to happen, and the risks are that the games development company's reputation would likely be knocked and if the truth got out then Nvidia's reputation would also fall; both events resulting in decreased profits for the developers involved.
  • So based on the last bullet point it is fairly clear to see that such a venture by Nvidia and the involved developers would be pretty much completely pointless due to it resulting in negative reputation, decreased profitability and a poorer industry record. Now neither the developers nor Nvidia are stupid and anything which affects the bottom line adversely will not go ahead unless absolutely necessary.
  • Thus far the claims from the AMD proponents on Nvidia's bribery to lock AMD out of the game code for any GW title are looking shaky at best and utter horse turd at worst. So where to go from here? Well, now that the speculators realise that their hypothesis is nonsense they either continue peddling their bs claims, they choose another angle of attack on Nvidia and their associated partners or they concede and admit they were wrong.
  • Unfortunately I haven't seen many take the logical latter approach given their severe lack of evidence for any of the claims so far, a few take the former option and end up looking like crackpot, young earth creationist lunatics peddling nonsense continuously, but most seem to have taken the second option and instead opted to push a different claim against Nvidia.
  • So what are the new claims? Well it was very predictable really what would happen next - the anti-Nvidia crowd start to push the speculation that instead of AMD being locked out from the game code their performance was instead sabotaged by code segments forced by the GameWorks libraries which were entirely designed to punish AMD cards thereby reducing their performance within the game. Of course these claims were not backed up by anything other than a few select tweets from disgruntled former employees of Nvidia/Ubisoft who could've been the cleaners for all we know.
  • But, again, let's examine this new claim in detail. And, again, it turns out the lines of reasoning which leads us to the conclusion that the claims are, again, utter bs are very similar to those given in bullet point number 2 - in short, Nvidia and game developer risk knocks in industry reputation and mid-long term profitability and game developer would pee off around 40% of their PC market leading to decreased profitability all around (short-long term).
  • Also we must pay heed to the words given by current Nvidia employees who have publicly tweeted about this whole hideous façade, in which they say that they have never told any of their staff to gimp performance on AMD cards and so nothing of this sort has actually ever happened; and we have no reason to disbelieve them.
  • Alas, of course the anti-Nvidia crowd claim that we must not trust a word that Nvidia employees say however it is fine to go along with the claims of AMD employees and their pet backers in the online media industry. And, thus, this whole debacle (even though it is based on utter nonsense) goes on and on.
  • Regular. As. Clockwork.
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To late for me to digest or even read that. I think I have made my opinions pretty clear and am rather tired of doing so. Am out for now and hopefully wont be back in for awhile. Enjoyed the debate tonight.
 
TheRealDeal said:
Yep so there's more truth to there opinions as these are the guys working with the code. If you want to know a company ask the guys working for them not the directors and company stance lol. Ubisoft themselves are hardly gonna shoot themselves in the foot and say it.

They might as well be thrown out because the big bad company that's mainly after money never said it. If we can't listen to the employee's that still work in these places then who can we. They were having a full blown conversations on twitter and there was 5-6 different people all in the game business saying this yet it's got to be chucked out. I think 2 of them were Ubisoft. How can you overlook this kind of stuff. I am not telling you to 100% believe it but to dismiss it is plain madness.

Seriously for me there has been enough of a case to say that where Nvidia is concerned dodgy things can or do happen. I am not saying don't buy there hardware as it's your own money and you can spend it on what you want or like. You would have to be blind though to think it's all rosy.
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No one said its all rosey just to keeping crying foul after its been proved not to be harming is imo quite blind and very close minded




If off the record quotes have more truth in them than official statements I'm sure i heard a guy that heard a guy That was a dev Give a off the record quote that Gameworks is great for everyone so it must be ..


As stated everyone has a opinion for anything or against it doesnt really matter as its speculation ,, all we can atm go on is the evidence given in which So far gameworks hasnt been proven to of harmed AMD , or should we take peoples opinions over facts?

How can you overlook this kind of stuff.
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You mean like overlooking the Facts?
 
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triss said:
No one saidits all rosey just to keeping crying foul is hardly fter its been proved not to be harming is imo quite blind and very closeminded

If off the record quotes have more truth in them than official statements I'm sure i heard a guy that heard a guy That was a dev Give a off the record quote that Gameworks is great for everyone so it must be ..

As stated everyone has a opinion for anything or against it doesnt really matter as its speculation ,, all we can atm go on is the evidence given in which So far gameworks hasnt been proven to of harmed AMD , or should we take peoples opinions over facts?
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Man I was out. I just wanted to say that posting on twitter for all to see is hardly off the record. You can barely get more on the record than publicly stating something on twitter on a open account.
 
TheRealDeal said:
Man I was out. I just wanted to say that posting on twitter for all to see is hardly off the record. You can barely get more on the record than publicly stating something on twitter on a open account.
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Some of those devs were Ubisoft devs as well. You can't get more public than that. :D

The majority of devs don't like the black box libraries of GameWorks, but at the end of the day money still talks.
 
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