British public wrongly believe rich pay most in tax

[Tuppy_Glossop]

It's an oversimplified statement about an extremely complex system. Council tax and NI could probably have new higher bands to reduce the lower band rates but consumption-based taxes are rightly flat rates, and these account for most of the poorest's tax spend.

 

[AndyT]

Classic case of dunces being misled by simple GCSE stats.

Poor people on average will of course pay more of a fraction of their income in tax than rich people. Rich people still pay significantly more cash though.

Having a better ratio of income to outgoings (including tax) is one of the more traditional perks of being rich.... I'm not sure where the confusion lies or who is actually surprised by this news?!

If a person couldn't work this out for themselves and are now finding themselves suitably enraged by the revelation, then I'm afraid they probably don't deserve to be rich anyway.

 

[ubersonic]

Change anyone's perception here?

No because I understand what I'm looking at and can see through the Guardian's nonsense, just because the top 10% pay 7.5% less tax than the lower 10% doesn't mean they pay less tax. 35% of multi-millions is still more than 43% of thousands, and also note that 43% is amount of income taken in tax before benefits are added to income so its an inflated %.

 

[estebanrey]

Classic case of dunces being misled by simple GCSE stats.

Poor people on average will of course pay more of a fraction of their income in tax than rich people. Rich people still pay significantly more cash though.

Having a better ratio of income to outgoings (including tax) is one of the more traditional perks of being rich.... I'm not sure where the confusion lies or who is actually surprised by this news?!

If a person couldn't work this out for themselves and are now finding themselves suitably enraged by the revelation, then I'm afraid they probably don't deserve to be rich anyway.

But isn't simply having more money a perk enough? You can't use the rich paying more gross as an argument against the poor then say it's right they also pay less as a fraction as well.

 

[dowie]

But isn't simply having more money a perk enough? You can't use the rich paying more gross as an argument against the poor then say it's right they also pay less as a fraction as well.

not even that necessarily... if we only look at their taxable income then we're not looking at all of their income as far as the bottom 10% are concerned

 

[thep02]

the majority of the population are not net (financial) contributors to the state

Kids and pensioners make up a sizeable percentage of the population so they are gona skew those ratios, the unemployed contribute by keeping wage inflation down and IFS has knocked most of the ill off their almost livable benefits and put them to work lowering wage inflation on JSA.

 

[diamount]

They'd never do anything about council tax other than put the price up.



Well that depends if poor people think, oh Mr. Millionaire pays 10% of his money in tax equating to £100,000 in tax whereas I pay 10% of my money (£100) in tax, so he pays more.

There's no way a rich person pays 10% in tax. 100k would go towards a very nice car.

 

[Meridian]

not even that necessarily... if we only look at their taxable income then we're not looking at all of their income as far as the bottom 10% are concerned

I no understand? You know most benefits are taxable, right? And most of the ones which are not, are not means tested either.

 

[mattyfez]

I would think the rich would pay less, as both rich and poor, for arguments sake pay about the same fixed tax such as vat and income tax..

However the rich have a lot of money to invest in tax efficient investment, thus squewing the figures in terms of tax paid as a percentage of wealth.

 

[Scrutinize]

The reality is, which is conveniently ignored by many here and loathed by socialists, is that the the system is better than equal and the higher earners contribute the most and sustain those at the lower spectrum.

I am yet to meet anyone who propagates this specific type of misleading inequality information such as the content of the original article, that isn't simply envious of success, intelligence and wealth. Those who have genuine concern for low income groups, look at all the facts and figures, accept these, then work for change.

As it stands, life choices represent the biggest hurdle to the low income groups. Smoking, excess alcohol, unmanageable/unsustainable numbers of kids, buying luxuries (cars, sky tv, latest smart phone, big screen TVs, fashion items) which they could easily do without.

This study is also hugely skewed by the impact family size has on tax expenditure, benefits and burden to state funded facilities including services and housing.

 

[=XDC=FluphyBunny]

Who is this 'British public' I keep hearing about?

 

[Kemik]

People who want to use aggressive tax avoidance schemes will continue to do so. The Laffer Curve is a myth and not backed up by the evidence. Income tax in the US is lower than the UK but still people try everything to avoid paying tax.

The point of a flat rate system is that there are no allowances to avoid income tax. The current five or six tax bibles would be shrunk to one and made so simple that there's no way to get out of tax.

 

[Tunney]

I am yet to meet anyone who propagates this specific type of misleading inequality information such as the content of the original article, that isn't simply envious of success, intelligence and wealth.

I'm a top rate tax payer and I don't think the rich pay enough tax. The difference between 40%, 45% and 50% really hasn't made an impact on our lifestyle. I'd rather be slightly poorer and live in a better society. Others agree with me.

As it stands, life choices represent the biggest hurdle to the low income groups. Smoking, excess alcohol, unmanageable/unsustainable numbers of kids, buying luxuries (cars, sky tv, latest smart phone, big screen TVs, fashion items) which they could easily do without.

How dare the poor try to have fun! It's almost like they're human beings.

 

[Efour]

As it stands, life choices represent the biggest hurdle to the low income groups. Smoking, excess alcohol, unmanageable/unsustainable numbers of kids, buying luxuries (cars, sky tv, latest smart phone, big screen TVs, fashion items) which they could easily do without.

This is amazing.... You have been completely and utterly brainwashed.

I had to quote it for posterity.

Except for the kids, you just described my old, hedonistic lifestyle. I was very much a top rate tax payer.

 

[balky12]

I'm a top rate tax payer and I don't think the rich pay enough tax. The difference between 40%, 45% and 50% really hasn't made an impact on our lifestyle. I'd rather be slightly poorer and live in a better society. Others agree with me.



How dare the poor try to have fun! It's almost like they're human beings.

Not that I'm saying you aren't a top rate tax payer, but the 2nd part of your statement was beyond stupid that one does question it.

No one is saying they can't smoke/ drink/ 'have fun' as you put it. Just don't moan about a higher portion of your wage going on VAT or duty when you choose this lifestyle?

I think we should abolish income tax. Then increase VAT. Very hard/ near impossible to avoid a tax on things you need to buy. Income tax if very complicated and people will always find ways around it.

 

[balky12]

This is amazing.... You have been completely and utterly brainwashed.

I had to quote it for posterity.

Except for the kids, you just described my old, hedonistic lifestyle. I was very much a top rate tax payer.

I don't think he said only the 'poor' do this. Of course the rich live this life style. Difference is they can afford to do it.

 

[Efour]

I don't think he said only the 'poor' do this. Of course the rich live this life style. Difference is they can afford to do it.

i couldn't afford it...

His rhetoric is just the same tired single mum, benefit culture scamming, crap that comes out evvvvery time..

Reform the nonsense tax system in the UK is the only answer dont try and "demnon"ize people for easy scapegoats.

The "poor" scroungers are a tiny spec in the total cost of whole system.

 

[balky12]

i couldn't afford it...

Ah! That would be because of the drugs good sir

 

[Dolph]

I'm a top rate tax payer and I don't think the rich pay enough tax. The difference between 40%, 45% and 50% really hasn't made an impact on our lifestyle. I'd rather be slightly poorer and live in a better society. Others agree with me.



How dare the poor try to have fun! It's almost like they're human beings.

If you have spare income that you want to be used to produce a better society, give it to charity, or even to the government voluntarily. Don't use force to apply your beliefs to others and society will be better

 

[Tunney]

If you have spare income that you want to be used to produce a better society, give it to charity, or even to the government voluntarily. Don't use force to apply your beliefs to others and society will be better

I don't agree with you. Look at the countries with the happiest citizens. They're almost all high tax countries.

This is obviously an over-simplification. There any many other factors that make these countries happier. However, high tax (and therefore higher public spending) is a unifying theme.