BMW or Audi - help me decide

theone8181 said:
Lifting off round a corner, don't do it in RWD as the weight shift can upset the car and cause oversteer.
Click to expand...

Lifting off mid corner can cause this in all sorts of cars - FWD Peugeots are notorious for lift-off oversteer. This isn't an RWD thing (Why would it be, there are zero driven wheels when you lift off!)
 
theone8181 said:
Lifting off round a corner, don't do it in RWD as the weight shift can upset the car and cause oversteer.
Click to expand...

This is exactly my point, do that in an old school RWD or FWD car and things get lairy very quickly, do it in even something relatively old like an e38 740i but one fitted with DSC (dynamic stability control), one of today's many "electronic driver aids" and the end result is remarkably different, even in a 2ton barge!
 
Don't get an A3 convertible. I had one briefly when my car was in Audi, they are terrible, granted this was a 1.2 (quite quick for a 1.2) but the wind noise was terrible, you could hear where the roof didn't seal properly and wind was coming through. Cannot recommend.
 
86JR said:
Don't get an A3 convertible. I had one briefly when my car was in Audi, they are terrible, granted this was a 1.2 (quite quick for a 1.2) but the wind noise was terrible, you could hear where the roof didn't seal properly and wind was coming through. Cannot recommend.
Click to expand...

Comes with free air con what you complaining about? :p
 
86JR said:
Don't get an A3 convertible. I had one briefly when my car was in Audi, they are terrible, granted this was a 1.2 (quite quick for a 1.2) but the wind noise was terrible, you could hear where the roof didn't seal properly and wind was coming through. Cannot recommend.
Click to expand...

Clearly there was something up with it then. Audi wouldn't design a car with a roof that doesn't seal properly. :rolleyes:

Not getting wet when it rains was probably pretty high up the priority list for example...
 
with my fathers first a3 cab there was an issue with wearing on the roof. firstly audi tried to blame this on my father telling him he was operating the roof incorrectly and that he used the incorrect roof treatment solution on it and it would cost him to replace.

despite the roof being electric, so not sure how you do that incorrectly.... lol, and audi treating the roof themselves and then giving my father the solution to use on it....

after a while they admitted there was a design fault with the roof that can cause wear and that my father was using the correct solution.

:p think my father got a new a3 out of it... or they replaced the roof completely.... can't remember now.

but that's the only issue he's had with it. been in it quite a few times on long runs on the motorway and can't say I've ever noticed the wind to be that loud at all surprisingly :)
 
Lima said:
Unfortunately I haven't had the privilege of being taught to drive in several different cars with different drive specs. Also unfortunately for me, I've passed my test at a time when FWD is the norm and RWDs are rare (especially as a first car). I've only driven FWD cars and had a brief spin in a 4WD. This does not mean I don't know how to drive or control the accelerator.... It just means RWD is something I've never experienced and seeing as I'm aware of the performance differences I thought I would ask more experienced people on here if they could let me know if it's the right choice for me. Also I never came on here raving about how I drive around town like I'm on a formula 1 track..... I just tried to paint a picture about the type of driver I am... Ie. A 'nippy' driver not a 60 year sales exec bumbling down a national speed limit at 40mph.

Anyway, thanks for the help so far. Is there anything else that can be advised that a typical FWD driver would/ could do but should avoid in a RWD car?

Fox, your last post was the sort of thing I'm trying to get at (things to be careful of etc).
Click to expand...

The reality is most of the time the driven wheels will be irrelevant and have little or no impact on what you are able to do with your car, not least if it's low powered and dry. Even in the wet with modern traction aids you have to be a bit of a rock ape, on bad tyres or have something slippy on the road for RWD to be a factor, but back to this in a moment...

The nature of most FWD cars today is they are designed to be easier to handle when you push it too far as they tend to understeer, which a lift off of the throttle will usually stop if you have lost traction, such as torque steering around a wet island which is simply amplified understeer caused by not enough traction for power. That can become an issue if you have a short wheelbase and you are committed to a corner at speed as lifting off will cause the weight to transfer from the rear to the front, hence lift off oversteer then becoming an issue, which any 205 or 106 GTi driver will have experienced at some point. Again, if you are experienced understanding this and how you can use it to dial out understeer is also another skill, but let's park that one as I don't want to fry your mind with technology and mafffffs.

With the rear wheels driven your pivot is still, typically, the centre of the car, but the end that will typically break traction under power is the back, not the front and this shows itself as oversteer. To deal with this you need opposite lock and throttle control but again, this will typically become an issue as you add power or throw in traction problems but frankly it even then isn't really a big issue. It can actually be a bonus as any Rally School will attest as oversteer is used in RWD rally cars to dial out understeer on crap surfaces and allow you to deal with conditions you can't foresee. On gravel if you start to understeer you are pretty much buggered, so they seek to get the car pivoting around the centre of the car and use the throttle to move you around. Doing a day at Phil Price for example would make it all make sense as you dial out your mind to stop adding lock and brakes and start adding/removing power to steer the car.

See this..
Camera8Nov073_zps4b45685f.jpg


So here I have just come out of a left hand bend and I am setting it up for right hand bend using oversteer. The back end is about to go from the right to the left and my lock with be the reverse of what you see in the pic, though my eyes will be looking where I want to go as you can see. I am by no means super skilled at this, but over the years I've got used to holding a car on the throttle and using it to pivot the car or simply hold it sideways (blame Tax Evader) and a few Oulton Drift Days feed the addiction nicely, not least in my wife's MX5.

So to the point. RWD is not a problem if you know what to do in the RARE occasion that you lose traction from the rear. As I said already most people will natually turn into the skid, or apply 'lock' but first few times it will usually be too much and married to some brakes and will feel messy and even scary as you simply don't know what to expect. Get some experience however and it all makes sense. There are lots of people here with RWD cars and only 23% of them died and only 94% of them wrote their cars off, so I think the facts prove what I am saying.....oh, wait.
 
Last edited:
Phil Price Rally School is a fantastic day out, went there for my 21st and you get a lot of time behind the wheel even if the track is only a figure of eight. Also being driven around the testing stage by Phil in whatever car he has at the time is absolutely buttock clenching, he's mad. :D

Higgins is supposed to be a good day out as well.
 
K1LLSW1TCH said:
Phil Price Rally School is a fantastic day out, went there for my 21st and you get a lot of time behind the wheel even if the track is only a figure of eight. Also being driven around the testing stage by Phil in whatever car he has at the time is absolutely buttock clenching, he's mad. :D
Click to expand...

I went in March with 9 mates, I think my 4th outing there and we had a great time, though I didn't like the 2WD Scooby's as much as the Escorts, they feel a bit more cumbersome. All of us ran times in the 70's for the competition, the best was 72 seconds which I believe is the quickest anyone has done it in a Scooby and quicker than the instructors have done. Mind you, the quickest of us was an ex professional racer in BTCC and various other championships.
 
Housey said:
I went in March with 9 mates, I think my 4th outing there and we had a great time, though I didn't like the 2WD Scooby's as much as the Escorts, they feel a bit more cumbersome. All of us ran times in the 70's for the competition, the best was 72 seconds which I believe is the quickest anyone has done it in a Scooby and quicker than the instructors have done. Mind you, the quickest of us was an ex professional racer in BTCC and various other championships.
Click to expand...

I can't remember my time, couldn't have been that great though as I came 2nd. Some smug little brat came in 1st, his Dad spent the majority of the day telling us what a fantastic kart racer he is and how he's going to break into F1... :rolleyes:

Phil's wife makes lovely sandwiches. :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom