workers rights
- Thread starter MassiveJim
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Soldato
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Agreed.
Ditto.
My previous employer was one of the big boys. £25billion annual revenue, etc. They can afford it.
But one of the little guys? They can't.
Soldato
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6 days off sick and then announcing you are 12 weeks pregnant is never going to win you the status of employee of the month.
Legally your GF has the upper hand but I wouldn't expect any favours from them. Employers can make your life a misery, mine do it to me every day all because my face doesn't fit. They are all having a staff do in the next few weeks and I have been elected to work and cover that day lol, (wouldn't have gone if I was invited).
My holiday requests are turned down and I am forced to cover others shifts. I have worked from March too and not had a single day off sick or been allowed any holiday.
I have no doubt at all they would sack me if they could find somebody else to do my shifts which all the other staff refuse to do. They are advertising for more staff and have made it unofficially clear they want youngish women to do it as they enjoy the tight team who can work and socialize together outside work. An older male doesn't really fit in that way.
Working for small employers can be brilliant, however your never going to get the security of them following employment rights to the letter like you do with larger firms.
Does your GF really need the stress of this being Pregnant? I know what it is like to feel anxiety and stress before going to work wondering what they will come up with next.
Legally your GF has the upper hand but I wouldn't expect any favours from them. Employers can make your life a misery, mine do it to me every day all because my face doesn't fit. They are all having a staff do in the next few weeks and I have been elected to work and cover that day lol, (wouldn't have gone if I was invited).
My holiday requests are turned down and I am forced to cover others shifts. I have worked from March too and not had a single day off sick or been allowed any holiday.
I have no doubt at all they would sack me if they could find somebody else to do my shifts which all the other staff refuse to do. They are advertising for more staff and have made it unofficially clear they want youngish women to do it as they enjoy the tight team who can work and socialize together outside work. An older male doesn't really fit in that way.
Working for small employers can be brilliant, however your never going to get the security of them following employment rights to the letter like you do with larger firms.
Does your GF really need the stress of this being Pregnant? I know what it is like to feel anxiety and stress before going to work wondering what they will come up with next.
is your GF definitely going back to this job once her maternity leave is over?
or is the employer going to be messed around with having to hire temps while the job is being held for your GF, only for the employer to have to find another full time member in a few months time?
or is the employer going to be messed around with having to hire temps while the job is being held for your GF, only for the employer to have to find another full time member in a few months time?
This is the reason small business get utterly shafted by this legislation.
A company barley afloat cant afford the extra burden.
I would never employ a 'young woman' on these grounds.
Its a totally different story for a bigger company but 1 or 2 man bands should keep well away.
A company barley afloat cant afford the extra burden.
I would never employ a 'young woman' on these grounds.
Its a totally different story for a bigger company but 1 or 2 man bands should keep well away.
Soldato
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Soldato
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Explain this bit to me please.
I see both sides - I understand your side where of course you want your girlfriend to be as relaxed as possible for the sake of her health and the health of your baby.
However, it's clear that (rightly or wrongly) her being there is stressing her out as a result of the business owners understandable level of frustration. If it's a small business, the owner is most likely not just concerned about your girlfriend and doing things by the book, but they are also highly concerned that it could be the end of their business.
As others have said, for a large corporation it doesn't make a tiny bit of difference, but for a small cafe that only employs a few staff it's a nightmare.
If I were your girlfriend, I'd be biting the bullet and walking away.
However, it's clear that (rightly or wrongly) her being there is stressing her out as a result of the business owners understandable level of frustration. If it's a small business, the owner is most likely not just concerned about your girlfriend and doing things by the book, but they are also highly concerned that it could be the end of their business.
As others have said, for a large corporation it doesn't make a tiny bit of difference, but for a small cafe that only employs a few staff it's a nightmare.
If I were your girlfriend, I'd be biting the bullet and walking away.
I'm sorry OP but if I were the owner she would have been gone before now. She has been with a business for circa 3 months and in that time has had a couple of sicknesses and has been a difficult staff member to manage. It isn't worth the bother and frankly the pregnancy is just a distraction I suspect.
Employers can claim back statutory maternity pay up to £45k plus like 4% (iirc) for the trouble.
I think after £45k there's a drop or something.
Edit: Was wrong, haven't looked at that **** in years. They can claim it back though.
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btw this is wrong...
should read..
TL: DR - GF gets preggers, starts a new job the following week, Boss acts accordingly by being ****ed off
Hi all,
TL: DR - GF announces she is preggers to boss, boss turns into mega-*****
What are her rights ?
Thanks for reading
should read..
TL: DR - GF gets preggers, starts a new job the following week, Boss acts accordingly by being ****ed off
Associate
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btw this is wrong...
should read..
TL: DR - GF gets preggers, starts a new job the following week, Boss acts accordingly by being ****ed off
In no way aiming to cast assertions in our OP's direction, but this is something I have first hand experience of on more than one occasion. One example is a person who started knowing very well they were pregnant and from week 2 announced it and then became a bloody nightmare using all and every opportunity to not work and to take the ****. I have friends who run companies who have also experienced similar situations and worked long enough to know this is a significant problem in a small business.
The reality is most workers simply go to 'me rights' before sitting down and having a pragmatic discussion. Some years back, I had a situation where a couple of months after joining I had this occur and the person came to see me, was committed and incredibly apologetic and just got on with it. We supported her as she didn't let is get in the way and I would expect any good employer would have. The key was she was a good employee, hard working, great attitude and never sought to use it as an excuse. She worked as long as she was able and made it clear she planned to come back quickly.
Sadly, the normal approach is get a job and aim for maternity pay and when the employer shows any form of feeling hard done by go to 'me rights'. In the OP's case where she has been there for such a little time and seems to have caused more than her fair share of annoyance, in such a menial job I would have replaced her a while back. It is so often a 1 way street and when you run a small business and have people asking, within 3 months, for unpaid time off and taking sickness, probably I am guessing with no knowledge of 'morning sickness' I am not surprised the owner is annoyed.
from what ive read she wont have been in her job long enough to claim statutory maternity pay, she'l get statutory maternity allowance which is paid direct from the Gov at a lesser rate
which brings me back to post #45..
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Associate
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Your gf can't be fired as it would automatically be unfair dismissal due to her being pregnant.
Your gf is entitled to maternity leave, but may not be entitled to any SMP. You can use the calculator here to put in the date the baby is due and the date employment started and it'll tell you what you're entitled to: https://www.gov.uk/maternity-paternity-calculator
The employer is well within their rights to control when your gf takes her holiday, as long as they allow the statutory minimum each year they can refuse any requests if they don't want you off during that week.
Your gf is entitled to maternity leave, but may not be entitled to any SMP. You can use the calculator here to put in the date the baby is due and the date employment started and it'll tell you what you're entitled to: https://www.gov.uk/maternity-paternity-calculator
The employer is well within their rights to control when your gf takes her holiday, as long as they allow the statutory minimum each year they can refuse any requests if they don't want you off during that week.
yeah, it is is standard practice in small business not to hire married women in the 25-38 category -or at let it will be discussed at hiring time.
Even ignoring the financial side (which is not big) the disruption is very difficult. The biggest issue is the need to maintain their job position so you can't hire a full time replacement but need a temp worker - which in anything remotely technical is impossible.
The upshot is if you are interviewing 2 candidates, a 28 YO women married for the last 3 without children and a man, there has to be a very big reason to hire the women over the man.
However, the rules are the rules and your GF can not be fired for being pregnant.
As for Vacations- the employer has full control over when yu take vacations. Blocking vacations in a business's busiest time is common.
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Associate
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What excuses do companies use to hire the man though? You're going to need a fairly good reason as to why the man was better for the job otherwise you'd lose if they claimed discrimination, which many be difficult to come up with if both applicants are equally good.
I expect this sort of situation happens quite often though where the man gets the job because he won't be getting pregnant. It's not about not discriminating, it's about not being seen to discriminate. Might be wrong but companies don't want the hassle and if they can get away with it then they will.
they dont need an excuse? when advertising a job you dont tell the unsucsessful why they didnt get it, could you imagen advertising a vacancie at your work, 30 people apply for 1 job, you get 1 worker and 29 lawsuits? lol
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You don't need an excuse not to hire someone.
It would be incredibly difficult for someone to prove they were better at a job than an unknown candidate that they have never met and don't know the name of.
And then hires don't have to made off purely technical reasons - the CEOs saying he has a better gut feeling from the man is a perfectly valid reason to hire someone. As is flipping a coin. If you had 2 similar good candidates how do you choose? In the end it will come down to a gut feeling or a random choice. If one of the candidates has the possibility of getting pregnant in the net 1 -2 years you simply don't hire them.
I don't agree with this attitude but I also don't agree with people abusing small businesses with these laws which can bankrupt them. In the US there is no maternity requirements for small companies. That helps elevate the problems but is also unfair on long term employees. What is really needed is something like no maternity rights if employed less than 2 years (e.g., you can get laid off is need be and receive government payout, no requirement the position is held open for employer), over 2 years there needs to be some guarantee (e.g. large fine if someone says they will return after maternity leave but they don't without a valid medical reason).