Voice your opposition to the Israeli actions for the past 65+ years

[B&W]

This is an absolute tragedy but I don't think anywhere along the scale of Chongqing, Coventry, London, Dresden, Berlin, Kobe, Tokyo, Hiroshima or Nagasaki. In fact, I am willing to lay a bet none of the parties in that conflict dropped leaflets, made phonecalls or even attempted a "knock knock" warning.

One could argue that the majority of Germans were not Nazis nor even voted the Party in, however 44% did so innocents were also killed in the ensuing conflict

This is 2014 not 1944. Times have moved on, so has technology and neither is this a total war.

Israel is not in danger of being destroyed unlike those in WW2.

 

[zoomee]

We dont target children says the IDF:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/18/israeli-soldier-posts-instagram-palestinian

Israeli soldier posts Instagram image of Palestinian child in crosshairs of rifle
Military investigates Mor Ostrovski, 20, as row grows over spate of offensive images posted online by Israeli soldiers

 

[Xordium]

When you have said children with explosives strapped to their back then you also know humanity has failed.

 

[Tefal]

We dont target children says the IDF:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/18/israeli-soldier-posts-instagram-palestinian

I'd say when there's no protests against USING children as bombs is when humanity has failed.

 

[zoomee]

you only have to acknowledge that these kids were brought up watching their mothers raped then killed, along with their fathers and previous 2 generations of family to see why kids would do such a thing.

Not that I'm condoning such a thing - its an act outside the realms of religion and is one carried out of desperation. Root causes - something people refuse to acknowledge.

Unfortunately most of you pro-israeli's here will refuse to acknowledge this so will never understand why kids would do such a thing. ONLY in palestine have kids ever done such a thing and even then its been rare. These are people who have been brought to the brink of destruction on many an occasion.

 

[Xordium]

Oh sorry I thought Zoomee people weren't allowed to play the previous generations game as reasoning for their actions?

And I am not pro-Israeli I am anti-inhumanecrazyidiots no matter whatever their flavour of emotional crutch.

 

[Devlish]

zoomee, that pic of the woman is where you should have stopped, because the rest of your post is the usual anti-israeli drivel. How you cant figure out that you and the manic pro-israelis are one and the same would be beyond me if you didn't demonstrate it with every post.

 

[Tefal]

you only have to acknowledge that these kids were brought up watching their mothers raped then killed, along with their fathers and previous 2 generations of family to see why kids would do such a thing.

Not that I'm condoning such a thing - its an act outside the realms of religion and is one carried out of desperation. Root causes - something people refuse to acknowledge.

Unfortunately most of you pro-israeli's here will refuse to acknowledge this so will never understand why kids would do such a thing. ONLY in palestine have kids ever done such a thing and even then its been rare. These are people who have been brought to the brink of destruction on many an occasion.

and what about those children who didn't see any of those things zoome what about those children who were told "we will publicly call you a collaborator so you will be tortured and murdered unless you take this bomb"


or how about the child told "hey can you take these car parts to somone on the other side of the checkpoint" while they call the cell phone in the bag to set off the bomb in the bag.?


how about those children zoomee?


or are they just necessary casualties?

 

[Tefal]

Unfortunately most of you pro-israeli's here will refuse to acknowledge this so will never understand why kids would do such a thing. ONLY in palestine have kids ever done such a thing and even then its been rare. These are people who have been brought to the brink of destruction on many an occasion

oh on that point nop it's not only happening in Palestine, it's a wide spread staple tactic of islamic groups.

iirc Nigeria had a spate where they mutilated the young boys removing hands and feet under trumped up theft or spying charges then told them that now they were disabled they should be a suicide bomber for the course. least that way their family would be cared for/they wouldn't be a burden.

 

[zoomee]

Funny - previous generation cards can't be played but 'kid suicide bombers can'

You might want to look into who first started to use the 'suicide bomber' tactics in the first place:

Hannah Szenes is admired by Zionists for her 1944 parachute “suicide mission.” Szenes was dropped behind enemy lines to assist Hungarian Jews during WW II. She was immediately caught and executed. But Szenes expected her “suicide” to occur for she wrote in her diary just prior to her suicide mission, “Blessed is the match consumed in kindling flame.”

Another Zionist “suicide bomber” is Baruch Goldstein. On Purim morning, February 25 1994, Goldstein walked into a Muslim mosque in Hebron & opened fire killing 29 worshippers.

Goldstein knew what he was in for when he sealed the doors before opening fire: a suicide mission for the Zionist cause. For he was soon beaten to death by survivors. Goldstein is now hailed as a hero by the State of Israel which erected a shrine to him in Kiryat Arba.

Then there is the example of Irv Rubin, former head of the violent Jewish Defense League. Rubin was arrested in California in 2001 for plotting to blow up a Muslim mosque. Rubin later committed suicide in jail. Rubin is also hailed as a hero by Zionist Jews.

And let’s not forget the militant Zionist, Yigal Amir. At a Tel Aviv rally in broad daylight Amir assassinated Yitzhak Rabin on November 4 1995 “for surrendering Jewish land to Arabs.”

Want some more examples? - It's nothing new.

Pathetic pro-israeli line to play the 'kid suicide bombers' cards. pffffft

Justifies killing four kids playing footy on the beach don't it?

 

[Noughtboy]

http://www.rense.com/general21/pastzionist.htm

LIST OF MASSACRES BY Jewish (Zionist) terrorists, FROM 1937-1948

I am not certain exactly what the cutoff is for the definition of "massacre". However, I don't believe a handful or less counts as such. I used an arbitrary 7 or below as my cuttoff. Using this number, 38 of 61 attacks (62%) are 7 killed or less so honestly, your source is already compromised.

However, in the interests of presenting the whole story, would you be prepared to post the number of attacks of Arabs on Jews that preceeded your list.

Actually, I am not sure if I can trust you to do that so will include a more exhaustive list below. It does not mention the Arab Massacre of Jews that took place in Hebron, Jerusalem and Tel Aviv/Jaffa in 1929 but you get the picture.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_and_massacres_in_Mandatory_Palestine

 

[B&W]

you only have to acknowledge that these kids were brought up watching their mothers raped then killed, along with their fathers and previous 2 generations of family to see why kids would do such a thing.

Not that I'm condoning such a thing - its an act outside the realms of religion and is one carried out of desperation. Root causes - something people refuse to acknowledge.

Unfortunately most of you pro-israeli's here will refuse to acknowledge this so will never understand why kids would do such a thing. ONLY in palestine have kids ever done such a thing and even then its been rare. These are people who have been brought to the brink of destruction on many an occasion.

Some of them have been forced to, or had bombs strapped to them without there knowledge.

Happens in other parts of the world too.

If you think groups like hamas think about religious doctrine before they plan an attack your wrong.

Remember this? "All is fair in love and war", im pretty sure they use that line of thinking instead.

 

[zoomee]

Not for one moment do I condone the use of suicide bombing. We all know that every abrahamic faith is against suicide so the use of suicide bombing is against the main principles of them faiths.

However a nation that regularly cries about it should think twice when its using banned cluster bombs, nail bombs and the like on a population with 'fireworks' for weapons. These people are desperate is all it shows. Playing that card whilst they are blatantly bombing children on the beach is a poor one at best.

People in extreme situations will go to extreme lengths is all I'm saying. Understanding root causes is a simple undertaking some here are incapable of comprehending.

 

[Noughtboy]

This is 2014 not 1944. Times have moved on, so has technology and neither is this a total war.

Israel is not in danger of being destroyed unlike those in WW2.

You are correct in your first part and incorrect in the second. Israel phones, drops leaflets and provides "knock knocks" which provides civilians time to act as human shields voluntarily or under Hamas coercion.

If Israel does not proceed with the attack, they are accused of psychological warfare.

The UK was never in danger of destruction in WW2. Losing the Battle of Britain perhaps and possibly the war but never destruction. The USA was never in danger of destruction. Israel however in 1948, 1967, 1973 most certainly was and still today Hamas and it's ilk still for Israel's destruction and Death to the Jews.

So, all things considered, despite what you are seeing on the news and your views, I believe Israel is acting with significant restraint and responsibility. Does it get it wrong sometimes? Sure but considering the number of missions and the systematic and wide spread use by Hamas of human shields, l think the situation could be a lot worse.

 

[Craterloads]

Israel is EXACTLY not like apartheid South Africa. Arab citizens make up around 20% of the population and therefore form a minority. Arab citizens hold full voting rights, own property, can go to any schools, use the same buses, toilets, social services, etc. etc. etc. There are Arab-Israeli members of the MK (Parliament), ones who hold senior government positions, nurses, teachers, business people. There is even an Arab-Israeli Miss Israel (Rana Raslan) -don't mention it to anyone but the Israelis also voted in a "BLACK" as a Miss Israel (Yityish Anyaw). There are Arab-Israeli judges, one of whom sentenced an ex Israeli President on rape charges (Judge George Karra and ex President Moshe Katsav).:

I wonder why the non Jews are a minority in Israel... could it have anything to do with mass expulsions / ethnic cleansing and mass immigration of European Jews from around the world. I know another country that had similar immigration policies, guess who...

Secondly Israel is an Apartheid state in everything apart from name

Former Special Rapporteur John Dugard described the situation in the West Bank as "an apartheid regime ... worse than the one that existed in South Africa."[150] In 2007, in advance of a report from the United Nations Human Rights Council, Dugard wrote, "Israel's laws and practices in the OPT [occupied Palestinian territories] certainly resemble aspects of apartheid." Referring to Israel's actions in the occupied West Bank, he wrote, "Can it seriously be denied that the purpose [...] is to establish and maintain domination by one racial group (Jews) over another racial group (Palestinians) and systematically oppressing them? Israel denies that this is its intention or purpose. But such an intention or purpose may be inferred from the actions described in this report."[151][152]

In October 2010 Richard A. Falk reported to the General Assembly Third Committee "It is the opinion of the current Special Rapporteur that the nature of the occupation as of 2010 substantiates earlier allegations of colonialism and apartheid in evidence and law to a greater extent than was the case even three years ago. The entrenching of colonialist and apartheid features of the Israeli occupation has been a cumulative process. The longer it continues, the more difficult it is to overcome and the more serious is the abridgement of fundamental Palestinian rights."[47]

According to a 2008 report in the Israeli newspaper Haaretz, then-President of the United Nations General Assembly Miguel d'Escoto Brockmann "likened Israel's policies toward the Palestinians to South Africa's treatment of blacks under apartheid.... Brockmann stressed that it was important for the United Nations to use the heavily-charged term since it was the institution itself that had passed the International Convention against the crime of apartheid."

In a survey conducted a few years ago (http://www.imra.org.il/story.php3?id=28218 they had this to say:

Shocking,

As an aside, I wonder if the 23% of the other countries better than Israel either included "terrorist" USA or even some of the more notable democracies in the Middle East where blacks, critics of the state etc are generally all welcomed with open arms and offered access to the welfare system and national health system.

Guess you missed the forced sterilization of blacks and marginalising of critics.

But it is. It is not a war against the Palestinian people per se. It is a war against a Muslim terrorist organisation (Hamas...and Hizbollah, Al Quds, Fatah al Islam etc in the broader context) firing rockets into Israel. I don't think Soda Stream played a major role here.

No its ethnic cleansing against anyone who isn't Jewish, just ask the Christian population that is a shadow of its former self. Firing of rockets is a natural opposition to imprisonment, ethnic cleansing and all round brutality, just ask the Jews under threat from the Nazis.

Unfortunately, the Gazans voted in Hamas (in contentious elections) so they are partly to blame for the misery they live in.

Yes we know how Israel loves a bit off collective punishment. It's hardly a surprise an imprisoned population living in one of the most extreme conditions imaginable vote for an extreme party. That's also ignoring the fact Israel voted in the Likud party which is just as extreme.

As above, it is about rockets. (56 last year and 11 mortar shells although a lower figure of 41 is quoted on the IDF Blog site) . None I believe from PA ruled West Bank but from Hamas controlled Gaza. This year before Operation Protective Edge, 450 were fired into Israel. Over 1000 have been fired since this operation has begun.

That's if you want to set the clock where it best suits your agenda, hundreds have been killed and kidnapped routinely prior to "operation protective edge"

The tragedy with the 3 teenagers led to the arrest of Hamas sympathisers, supporters, fighters etc. This led to Hamas firing more rockets. The Arab teenager disgustingly killed in retaliation has already led to the arrest of 6 Jews. No one in the case of the Jewish teenagers has been produced by Hamas or the PA because they are either not capable or not capable and not interested. You do know there is a difference between a Hebrew speaking man and a man speaking Hebrew, right? Just in case you are trying to deliberately obfuscate the events by hinting that an Israeli kidnapped the kids to provoke an incident. What language do you think an Arab kidnapping Jewish Israelis is going to use to make himself understood?

Yes 300+ Palestinians were kidnapped illegally as a result and around 18 killed prior to any rockets being fired. In fact Palestinians release in a previous agreement were rearrested I guess out of spite considering they had nothing to do with the crimes committed by a Hebron based group in the west bank.

Hamas has not claimed direct involvement as the bumbling murderers, realising they were rumbled by the phone call, murdered the kids immediately (or very shortly thereafter) as they thought the kidnapping was reported and they were about to be caught.

As there was no longer any political gain from the dead teenagers and no prisoner swop for their corpses, the bodies were dumped and Hamas do not want themselves associated with a bungled operation that got them no gain and only serves to show them up as the murdering terrorists they are.

Source and some facts would be nice, rather than your interpretation of events. I guess we wont get any considering there isn't really any evidence to suggest Hamas was behind the kidnapping aside from Netanyahu blaming them within ours of the kidnapping. I guess this operation also has nothing to to with Israeli opposition of the Unity government since a united Palestinian peoples is stronger and puts a thorn it to Israeli goals of keeping both lands as separate as possible making it impossible for a two state solution.

 

[Danny75]

Excellent post @ Craterloads. Thank you.

 

[Craterloads]

You are correct in your first part and incorrect in the second. Israel phones, drops leaflets and provides "knock knocks" which provides civilians time to act as human shields voluntarily or under Hamas coercion.

Yes it asks 100,000s to flee, yet they are under a land, air and sea blockade with all borders blocked in one of the most heavily populated places on the planet. I wonder who the four kids playing football on the beach were shielding?

If Israel does not proceed with the attack, they are accused of psychological warfare.

Its ok as that rarely ever happens anyway.

The UK was never in danger of destruction in WW2. Losing the Battle of Britain perhaps and possibly the war but never destruction. The USA was never in danger of destruction. Israel however in 1948, 1967, 1973 most certainly was and still today Hamas and it's ilk still for Israel's destruction and Death to the Jews.

Are you comparing possibly the most dangerous and destructive war ever in Human history to that with Israel (one of the best armed nations in the world) against Palestinians armed with sling shots? I think you need some perspective of reality.

So, all things considered, despite what you are seeing on the news and your views, I believe Israel is acting with significant restraint and responsibility. Does it get it wrong sometimes? Sure but considering the number of missions and the systematic and wide spread use by Hamas of human shields, l think the situation could be a lot worse.

Yea I don't think 80% civilians casualties with most being women and children classes as showing restraint, especially with pin point weapons. Funnily Hamas with rudimentary unguided weapons has a significant higher civilian to non civilian ratio with 18 soldiers to 1 civilian death (even that death was whilst the civilian was on the battlefield within soldiers)

Heres what John Kerry actually thinks about Israels restraint and pin point operations, caught off air

Human shields argument is becoming tired considering Hamas operate in one of the most dense populations centres on the planet not forgetting the land mass. Also importantly any open areas, where there are few, are monitored by satellite, drones, and every perceivable technology know to man, hence it would pretty much be suicide. The fact is Hamas use tunnels now close to the border to launch resistant attacks on Israel. That's also ignoring the fact Israel used human shields, probably worse as they used Palestinians as human shields tying them to their military vehicles. Both sides have used human shields in the past, that is not an excuse for what is happening now.

Instead of focusing on the round about that is this conflict how about we discuss removing what is the source to these problems? Israel's illegal occupation of Palestine which results in natural opposition, Israel's illegal settlements, Israel's illegal blockade by land, air and sea, Israel's apartheid policies and all round injustice for the Palestine people? Israel's opposition to peace and a two state solution. Questioning the Palestinians resistance is as bad as questioning why Jews resisted the Nazi's in WW2.

 

[ak22]

Respect to all those who could make it to march it was great turn out & a very hot day! form what I heard from my friends , hopefully I can make it to next one ... in fact hopefully we won't need another march .

 

[radar19]

Let them kill each other, would be doing the world a favour.

 

[deuse]

Respect to all those who could make it to march it was great turn out & a very hot day! form what I heard from my friends , hopefully I can make it to next one ... in fact hopefully we won't need another march .

After all that moaning you never went!
Don't worry just post on the internet and everything will be alright